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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Default Kid Trunks and Goten VS Android 18

    I've always wondered what would happen if this fight didn't get interrupted by the referees and was allowed to run its course.

    How would 18 do against the two boys after they went SSJ on her?

  2. #2
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    I've always wondered what would happen if this fight didn't get interrupted by the referees and was allowed to run its course.

    How would 18 do against the two boys after they went SSJ on her?
    Given the level she'd shown to then (still right at her end-of-Cell-saga level - she explicitly wasn't training), the two of them at SSJ ought to be able to take her, as long as they lose the Mighty Mask costume. Nothing ever really explains her orders-of-magnitude powerup from the Cell Saga to the ToP.
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  3. #3
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    I don't really recall them doing anything too significant without fusing to peg their power at mid-Cell Saga levels. I think 18 was about the strongest thing they genuinely fought, and she was mostly just surprised that Mighty Mask posed any sort of challenge at all. Her main difficulty with them seemed to come from both of them attacking simultaneously and then changing up their movement when they switched places. She skirmishes with them just fine when they're both super saiyan and attacking her without the costume, so even if they're close to her, limitless energy should see her through.

    Of course, if they manage to fuse, the whole thing's a wash, but this seems to be intentionally from before they learned fusion.
    Last edited by BitVyper; 01-24-2020 at 10:52 AM.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Given the level she'd shown to then (still right at her end-of-Cell-saga level - she explicitly wasn't training), the two of them at SSJ ought to be able to take her, as long as they lose the Mighty Mask costume. Nothing ever really explains her orders-of-magnitude powerup from the Cell Saga to the ToP.
    Gonna have to hard disagree here.

    Before Vegeta learned ssj, he was training in 400x gravity. Trunks (near the tournament) was struggling even more at just 150x.

    Remember that ssj is not a tier. It's a multiplier. 18 snapped ssj Vegetas arm when he had grown even more powerful from his 400x G days.

    The only reason Goten and Trunks were viable opponents to late game DBZ villains was because Fusion is a RIDICULOUS power boost. Stacked with ssj3, they became relevant.
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  5. #5
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Disagreement is fine. :-)

    I'm not really stuck on an answer here in any case. I was kind of basing my reply on what is anecdotally stated about the kids. Super Saiyan is a joke to them, in effect.

    Vegeta had a couple of massive power boosts during the Cell saga. Like - trivially losing to 18 to trivially dominating semi-perfect Cell level stuff, which is gigantic. Goku does similar. And we know that they are both much weaker than Cell-era SSJ2 Gohan. But by the time Buu rolls around, Goku and Vegeta are both many times stronger than Gohan was at Cell. And while yes, Trunks and Goten are much weaker than Vegeta and Goku, I don't know that I'd place them so far below Gohan, just given the trivial nature with which they master stuff it took Gohan relative years to do.
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  6. #6
    Incredible Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention

    this is NO fusing. Just Trunks and Goten at the level they were fighting at against her in the Budokai before Buu came by and mucked everything up.

    Obviously, no SSJ3 either.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    I will point out that #18 explicitly did do at least some training after the Cell Saga, since she learned how to use the Kienzan and I believe also was able to sense ki, things that she couldn't do when she was first introduced.

    Not to mention that ISTR the Tarble movie had Goten and Trunks be roughly equivalent to Avo and Cado, who were said to have gotten to be around as strong as Frieza was before his first death, who in turn was turned into chunky confetti by a guy who proceeded to severely notch the blade he used for that feat when #18 blocked it with her bare forearm.

    So yeah, she probably swats them unconscious with casual ease when she isn't holding back because she thinks that she's fighting some rando.

  8. #8
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    if the rules of the tournament are still in play, i'm sure they'd win by getting her out of bounds.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellenate View Post
    if the rules of the tournament are still in play, i'm sure they'd win by getting her out of bounds.
    Pretty sure the Z fighters don't have to ever worry about being knocked out of bounds since they can fly around.

  10. #10
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Pretty sure the Z fighters don't have to ever worry about being knocked out of bounds since they can fly around.
    You just need a meteor effect.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    The only reason Goten and Trunks were viable opponents to late game DBZ villains was because Fusion is a RIDICULOUS power boost. Stacked with ssj3, they became relevant.
    Also it's easy to forget but they had over a year of training between the last thing they did solo and Gotenks' fights.
    Last edited by Siriel; 01-25-2020 at 12:40 AM.

  12. #12
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Also it's easy to forget but they had over a year of training between the last thing they did solo and Gotenks' fights.
    I had forgotten that - true. Ah, HBT. How you screw timelines up.
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  13. #13
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    I will point out that #18 explicitly did do at least some training after the Cell Saga, since she learned how to use the Kienzan and I believe also was able to sense ki, things that she couldn't do when she was first introduced.

    Not to mention that ISTR the Tarble movie had Goten and Trunks be roughly equivalent to Avo and Cado, who were said to have gotten to be around as strong as Frieza was before his first death, who in turn was turned into chunky confetti by a guy who proceeded to severely notch the blade he used for that feat when #18 blocked it with her bare forearm.

    So yeah, she probably swats them unconscious with casual ease when she isn't holding back because she thinks that she's fighting some rando.
    Maybe Trunks forgot to take care of the blade in the intervening time? OK, probably not.

    OTOH, in that fight, Goten and Trunks, who can sense power just fine and who know 18 well enough didn't panic or freak or think they were screwed when facing 18. they knew she was tough and that they were in for a fight, but they didn't think that it was a sure loss. Hell, they didn't even go SSJ at first. Yes, that's a common Saiyan thing, obviously, but usually it's against foes that they don't know.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
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  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Maybe Trunks forgot to take care of the blade in the intervening time? OK, probably not.

    OTOH, in that fight, Goten and Trunks, who can sense power just fine and who know 18 well enough didn't panic or freak or think they were screwed when facing 18. they knew she was tough and that they were in for a fight, but they didn't think that it was a sure loss. Hell, they didn't even go SSJ at first. Yes, that's a common Saiyan thing, obviously, but usually it's against foes that they don't know.
    Three points:

    A) The fact that you can't sense the Artificial Humans using normal ki senses was a major factor throughout her introductory saga;

    2) They were in a friendly tournament, where they knew who she was and also knew that she want aware that they were two high end superhumans stacked together rather than just another modestly talented nobody, like everyone else in the ring that she was trying not to accidentally splatter;

    Third) Kid Trunks and Kid Goten were kinda stupid, vis a vis knowing when they were outclassed, possibly because they had never been in a life threatening situation before (unlike Gohan had, by the time that he was their age). Need I remind you that their immediate reaction to sensing friggin' Buu was to go flying to join in the battle, and that, after their first transformation into Gotenks, they immediately went to fight Buu without even going Super Saiyajin?
    Last edited by The Drunkard Kid; 01-25-2020 at 06:17 AM.

  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Three points:

    A) The fact that you can't sense the Artificial Humans using normal ki senses was a major factor throughout her introductory saga;

    2) They were in a friendly tournament, where they knew who she was and also knew that she want aware that they were two high end superhumans stacked together rather than just another modestly talented nobody, like everyone else in the ring that she was trying not to accidentally splatter;

    Third) Kid Trunks and Kid Goten were kinda stupid, vis a vis knowing when they were outclassed, possibly because they had never been in a life threatening situation before (unlike Gohan had, by the time that he was their age). Need I remind you that their immediate reaction to sensing friggin' Buu was to go flying to join in the battle, and that, after their first transformation into Gotenks, they immediately went to fight Buu without even going Super Saiyajin?
    Sure to all of that, buuuuuut for that last thinq, fusions in general always make the fused result a bit... megalomaniacal.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

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