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  1. #16
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Kraven could be manipulated to have it solely from his view.

    Kingpin. About his ride to the top of the chain.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    I would love to see a standalone Superior Spider-Man, adapting elements of the various runs and show Otto going from triumphant villain to somewhat redeemed anti-hero.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    I would love to see a standalone Superior Spider-Man, adapting elements of the various runs and show Otto going from triumphant villain to somewhat redeemed anti-hero.
    That's not Joker 2019 though. Making a villain into an anti-hero and having him redeemed is not what Joker did.

    Joker took a character who had traditionally been a villain, inserted him into a believable social milieu, and all the various ways that milieu affected him, and yet still in the finale ends with him being the villain.

    The trick is to conceive of a Dr. Octopus story where he ends the movie as a bad guy, or any story of a character who ends the movie as a bad guy, and yet still be compelling enough to command audience attention all the way through.

    You can do a story with Doctor Doom and Magneto where they end the movie as villains and they would still be compelling enough to command your attention. But there aren't too many Spider-Man villains who can do that.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Ozymandias's Avatar
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    The Chameleon as someone with DID. That's the craziest non-powered villain in Spidey's rogues gallery.

  5. #20
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    With the critical and financial success of Joker, I'm sure Sony is taking another look at the Spider-Man IPs to see if they can do something similar, a standalone project focusing on a villain's story without Spider-Man.

    Is there any character they could use?

    This is a bit different from Morbius and Venom, which are meant to launch their own franchises and could tie into the Spider-Man films.

    One issue is getting a character with enough of a following who can work in their own project. Joker was the main villain in 2008's most popular movie, so he works in a way Sandman doesn't.

    The Sony hacks revealed talks about a Kraven project, and while you could do a movie about a crazed hunter, he is largely unknown to filmgoers.

    You could do a monster movie about the Lizard, but The Amazing Spider-Man wasn't that successful.

    The Osborns have the highest profile (aside from Venom) but they don't really work without Spider-Man.

    One potential character might be the Hobgoblin. There could be a film about a businessman who discovers the lost technology of Norman Osborn, perhaps in the world of the Raimi films.
    I think Norman could work. None of Spider-man's early villains became villains because of Spider-man, they were who they were already. Their successive appearances in the comics cemented them as Spidey villains.

    That said, a Goblin "Joker" type movie could revolve around Norman as a struggling industrialist who questionable business decisions and ethics have pushed his company to the edge of bankruptcy. His home life is collapsing as his company's woes affect his family's social standing. Wife ends up cheating on him. Harry, bullied at school begins delving into drugs in an effort to fit in. His business partner, Mendel Stromm tries to kill him in an effort to "save" the company. Norman is driven by all these pressures to create the dangerous tech he feels would save the company. The basis for the Green Goblin tech. The final scene has him in Green Goblin armor (kind of like the outfit he wore in Thunderbolts) fighting Stromm and his army of robots. The next day a triumphant Norman is drinking coffee on his high rise terrace and opens the Daily Bugle to the headline; Spider-man: Hero or Menace!
    Last edited by SpideyClone; 01-25-2020 at 08:30 AM.

  6. #21

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    Maybe a Sandman or Rhino film?

  7. #22
    A Green Unpleasant Man Rob London's Avatar
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    I think anything could work, if it was well-made. Just imagine it - SHOCKER: a day in the life of a lunchpail super villain.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob London View Post
    I think anything could work, if it was well-made. Just imagine it - SHOCKER: a day in the life of a lunchpail super villain.
    You mean adapt The Superior Foes of Spider-Man, which has all lunchpail super-villains. I think that's the best way to do a movie like this with Spider-Man's rogues.

    A Guy Ritchie movie but with supervillains in a world where Spider-Man exists is a great concept. You can even do a R-Rated movie out of it. And you can even sub-franchise it.

    You start with the first version of the Superior Foes, then do a sequel with Janice Beetle's crew, and maybe a third movie where Boomerang's room-mate is a guy named Peter and he's reformed and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    The Chameleon as someone with DID. That's the craziest non-powered villain in Spidey's rogues gallery.
    To make a real Chameleon movie you need to make it so you are never shown who the Chameleon is, the Chameleon doesn't have a real name or real face. That movie has already been made, it's John Carpenter's THE THING.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    That said, a Goblin "Joker" type movie could revolve around Norman as a struggling industrialist who questionable business decisions and ethics have pushed his company to the edge of bankruptcy. His home life is collapsing as his company's woes affect his family's social standing. Wife ends up cheating on him. Harry, bullied at school begins delving into drugs in an effort to fit in. His business partner, Mendel Stromm tries to kill him in an effort to "save" the company. Norman is driven by all these pressures to create the dangerous tech he feels would save the company. The basis for the Green Goblin tech. The final scene has him in Green Goblin armor (kind of like the outfit he wore in Thunderbolts) fighting Stromm and his army of robots. The next day a triumphant Norman is drinking coffee on his high rise terrace and opens the Daily Bugle to the headline; Spider-man: Hero or Menace!
    What kind of movie is that, a tragedy or a dark comedy, because if you make a Norman Osborn where he starts out as a jerk and gets worse and worse and somehow wins at the end, that's not much of a movie. I think Kelly Sue DeConnick's OSBORN miniseries is a good material to do a solo Goblin movie but again that story is from the perspective of Norah Winters, i.e. a civilian journalist and it's about her outrage at the way the law is rigged to reward men like Osborn. It's not a "Joker" type i.e. where we follow the story entirely from the perspective of the villain.

  9. #24
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    can i get a movie about the spot please

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    A Venom prequel with Cletus/Carnage
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  11. #26
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    You mean adapt The Superior Foes of Spider-Man, which has all lunchpail super-villains. I think that's the best way to do a movie like this with Spider-Man's rogues.

    What kind of movie is that, a tragedy or a dark comedy, because if you make a Norman Osborn where he starts out as a jerk and gets worse and worse and somehow wins at the end, that's not much of a movie. I think Kelly Sue DeConnick's OSBORN miniseries is a good material to do a solo Goblin movie but again that story is from the perspective of Norah Winters, i.e. a civilian journalist and it's about her outrage at the way the law is rigged to reward men like Osborn. It's not a "Joker" type i.e. where we follow the story entirely from the perspective of the villain.
    Of course it's a tragedy. Norman makes a lot of bad decisions trying to save his company, & his family's social status. His tragedy is that he's focusing on money and power as the means to those ends, instead of working on his relationships with his family. His obsession with the Goblin tech and serum isolates him from the ones who need him the most, his wife and son. His victory, if you call it that, is hollow because while he achieves his desired end, he's lost everything that truly matters. His wife is gone and his relationship with Harry never recovers.

  12. #27
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Wilson Fisk, growing up with a gangster father. Has several opportunities to be different and a better man than his father but keeps giving in to his violent impulses and greed. He’s a rising gangster when we first meet him, and the only way he takes over the top spot as “Kingpin” is being so cold and heartless.
    We end the film where he finally is in the spot he has been climbing towards all his life, but he has lost everything close to him on his way up.

  13. #28
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Wilson Fisk, growing up with a gangster father. Has several opportunities to be different and a better man than his father but keeps giving in to his violent impulses and greed. He’s a rising gangster when we first meet him, and the only way he takes over the top spot as “Kingpin” is being so cold and heartless.
    We end the film where he finally is in the spot he has been climbing towards all his life, but he has lost everything close to him on his way up.
    That sounds like an excellent Marvel gangster film. Could do something similar with Tombstone, or Silvermane as an old Mafia (sorry, "Maggia") boss trying to prove he's still got it against younger and more cutthroat competitors, especially competitors who've been enhancing themselves with tech, drugs, biological modification, or other methods of bestowing superpowers. In Kingpin's case, I'd cap it off with Fisk putting out a hit on a certain boxer who's either been refusing to throw fights for him lately or been talking to the press for an expose on the Mob rigging those fights.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    Of course it's a tragedy. Norman makes a lot of bad decisions trying to save his company, & his family's social status.
    It's tragic if Norman is working to attain those ends, if he was born poor and was rising from rags to riches and that in his pursuit of wealth, to provide his family a better life he ends up driving them away. But Norman was born rich. So he had money and status to start with, so him fighting to preserve the status quo and scrambling to making it work for him, isn't tragic at all in the strict definition of the term. Tragedy is about characters who try and bring about some kind of change, either a change in themselves, a change in environment, and so on. Curt Connors is tragic because he wanted to change his biology and grow a hand. Whereas Norman used a serum that he knew would give him superpowers and went all in.

    His tragedy is that he's focusing on money and power as the means to those ends, instead of working on his relationships with his family. His obsession with the Goblin tech and serum isolates him from the ones who need him the most, his wife and son. His victory, if you call it that, is hollow because while he achieves his desired end, he's lost everything that truly matters. His wife is gone and his relationship with Harry never recovers.
    I never got the sense that Norman truly loved his wife and son for that to really bother him.

    Like in Spider-Man 1, Dafoe's Norman came off as tragic because the movie presented him as a frustrated scientist, someone who really did care about his work and didn't really do it for money. The Goblin serum was developed for a military contract that his company needs to create that groundbreaking work. Norman is too driven and work-focused to notice that his own co-workers don't respect him and seem to be working to actively undermine him. He married a trophy wife (apparently) and hates her, and dislikes Harry for not inheriting his genius. Norman's issues in that movie is despite attaining success he is lonely and isolated because of his intelligence and he doesn't have anyone to relate to. So that manifests in his fixation on Spider-Man to "join him" and later Peter Parker who he wants to break and crush. In Spider-Man 1, Goblin's tragedy is presented as a parallel and warning to Peter, a sense of who he could be if he screws up his relationships in pursuit of shallow ends. There are tragic characters among Spider-Man villains, like Connors, and Kraven but most of them including the major ones -- Goblin, Dr. Octopus, and others -- are not tragic.

    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Wilson Fisk, growing up with a gangster father. Has several opportunities to be different and a better man than his father but keeps giving in to his violent impulses and greed. He’s a rising gangster when we first meet him, and the only way he takes over the top spot as “Kingpin” is being so cold and heartless.
    We end the film where he finally is in the spot he has been climbing towards all his life, but he has lost everything close to him on his way up.
    We already saw this in the Netflix Daredevil show which dealt with his backstory and sympathetic motivations. And Kingpin doesn't "lose everything close to him on his way up". His wife Vanessa who he loves loyally supports him in his criminal endeavors and is by his side when he emerges as Kingpin.

  15. #30
    Radioactive! Spiderfang's Avatar
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    Miles Warren (Jackal), he's deranged, obsessed with one of his students to the point of projected a false and unrequited relationship onto her.
    The city I once knew as home is teetering on the edge of radioactive oblivion

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