Looking back on E for Extinction

[spirit2011]

Bruce was cuddling with her afterward, the drinks were untouched when they started having sex, and only brought up being drugged when she started talking about getting pregnant.
Talia's even deliberately playing up the femme fatale and orientalist theme villain cliches to get his attention because she knows it's what his childish superhero mind responds to.

It's ambiguous because Morrison, as revealed in his script for Arkham Asylum, views Bruce as kind of childish and has a limited view in some of his interactions with women. They are either his sainted mother or the sexy femme fatales.
From Talia's POV, she's still a creep for even trying to use the drug even if it was ultimately untouched. And the narrative doesn't change that she's a damaged person, the product of being raised by her whack job father and her discarded mother's only bit of advice is to act like a femme fatale so everyone underestimates her. No wonder she's so screwed up (and the first time I've ever found her interesting).

This is off. but these images let it very well that it wasn't consensual https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...be6b8886be4b1d
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...850b02620c6ce1

I just brought this here because there is some similaties about Morrison using things that can be called sexual assault to move his stories and never really adressing it.
and the fact that he also offs Thalia, like he did with Jean.

majority of Thalia fans doesn't like Morrison.

[SiegePerilous02]

This is off. but these images let it very well that it wasn't consensual https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...be6b8886be4b1d
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...850b02620c6ce1

I just brought this here because there is some similaties about Morrison using things that can be called sexual assault to move his stories and never really adressing it.
and the fact that he also offs Thalia, like he did with Jean.

majority of Thalia fans doesn't like Morrison.

Yep, and later we have the flashback in New 52 Batman Inc #2 that suggests that Bruce never even drank the drink.

He killed two characters that have built in resurrection plot devices: Lazarus Pits and Phoenix Force. DC just didn't sit on their ass like Marvel and brought Talia back quickly, as he likely knew they would. He even set up her pending resurrection himself. In a genre where death is a vacation for pretty much everyone.

They can dislike him if they want. personally, I've never cared for Talia or the al Ghuls in general before that anyway so I'm not bothered by it. She's more interesting as a threat than her father was, and I'm glad the eye rolling "beloved" crap is mostly out of the way.

[starduck]

Yep, and later we have the flashback in New 52 Batman Inc #2 that suggests that Bruce never even drank the drink.

He killed two characters that have built in resurrection plot devices: Lazarus Pits and Phoenix Force. DC just didn't sit on their ass like Marvel and brought Talia back quickly, as he likely knew they would. He even set up her pending resurrection himself. In a genre where death is a vacation for pretty much everyone.

They can dislike him if they want. personally, I've never cared for Talia or the al Ghuls in general before that anyway so I'm not bothered by it. She's more interesting as a threat than her father was, and I'm glad the eye rolling "beloved" crap is mostly out of the way.

I've read Marvel didn't bring her back because some people in editorial didn't like her much and thought she was better off dead

[Lucyinthesky]

Bro I kmow. I'm just saying those are 2 thing's about Magneto the movie audience would have seen that woulda softened his image as Magbrto in the 616 was wildin'out.

Lest we not forget Fassbenders turn as Magneto

McKellen`s magneto acted like a complete villain between leaving Mystique behind and making Xavier kill every human on earth, something comic magneto at his worse has never done.

But I agree Fassbenders Magneto had a little more substance and was written with comics Magneto in mind which is understable given X-men First Class was supposed to be about Magneto`s origin movie but it was changed to show the story of Charles and others mutants.

[SiegePerilous02]

I've read Marvel didn't bring her back because some people in editorial didn't like her much and thought she was better off dead

Which annoys me, but I still blame them and not Morrison. They likely would have killed her off if he didn't, and it was within their power to bring her back at any time and chose not to.

McKellen`s magneto acted like a complete villain between leaving Mystique behind and making Xavier kill every human on earth, something comic magneto at his worse has never done.

But I agree Fassbenders Magneto had a little more substance and was written with comics Magneto in mind which is understable given X-men First Class was supposed to be about Magneto`s origin movie but it was changed to show the story of Charles and others mutants.

I stopped watching the Fox-Men after Days of Future Past, but I've heard some general reactions that Fassbender's Magneto gets insufferable as the movies continue.
Kinda wish something along the lines of Jean's "are you done with your latest destructive bid for attention? Do you actually have something relevant to say anymore?" comments from Planet X would be aimed at the movie version.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree with that: Magneto was always on a fragile footing when he tried to act as a benevolent character. Master Yoda would agree with that: the dark side is easier and more comfortable to Magneto. The greatest problem with Magneto is his lack of trust. He has no friends with the exception of Xavier (who has been exceptionally understanding and has clung to this friendship). He may care for the mutants but, as a loner, he doesn't have meaningful relationships with them: the relation remains abstract. The mutants loved him as much as they feared him. A Magneto that tries hard to fit in a group instead of making the rules is cute, in a way… But old habits…
Still, it is this Magneto I find endearing: the one who tries to overcome his old reflexes and knows the difference between right and wrong.

I agree he`s a loner but this doesn`t mean he can`t develop meanful relationships, for example before charles there was Magda, after him there was Isabelle and Loran`s mother, he has developed close ties with Storm, Rogue, Illyana and Cyclops to a point, Namor and even Doom sometimes when they had to do teamwork, all those relationships are it`s own thing different to his friendship with Charles and I would go as far as saying that after Fatal Attractions where Charles wiped his mind his relationship with some of them is even better than the one he has with Xavier. His main problem is that isolation makes him more vulnerable to the effects of his PTSD which leads to him acting more like "Mutant leader Magneto who`s close to no one" "I am power" "I am inhuman" etc and less than how he`s at his more sane, balanced moments. Lately he has seek help to deal with this with Xorn II during Bunn`s X-men Blue which explains why this time around he has kept himself more in check.

]It's like recent authors haven't been able to decide where to situate Magneto, good, bad, in-between… He's a bit like a Swiss knife. It blurs the character and weakens him. With Claremont, it has been always clear.

Yes it`s also a matter of writers not wanting to lose him as the main X-men big bad Claremont did an entire arc with him during his run but comics are a serioes and the 90`s writers for example went overboard with him because they could not stand passive, new mutants mentor Magneto, they wanted him to be dangerous again and Bob Harras wanted to write him as the second coming of Hitler so yes that affected his development during that decade, it all ended with Morrison`s run and I guess thanks to the way he tried to break the character beyond any use and marvel changing editiorial leadership it thankfully lead to marvel trying to fix the character again with a balanced view between Claremont, 90`s Magneto and retconing Morrison`s magneto. It also helps that the character has a story and level of complexity that it allows for different interpretations of his character and as long as writers try to write him in character it can lead to a good story.

[Lucyinthesky]

I stopped watching the Fox-Men after Days of Future Past, but I've heard some general reactions that Fassbender's Magneto gets insufferable as the movies continue.
Kinda wish something along the lines of Jean's "are you done with your latest destructive bid for attention? Do you actually have something relevant to say anymore?" comments from Planet X would be aimed at the movie version.

I have not heard anything of the sort closer thing I hear was that fans whished another X-men villain was brought at the center and that`s fair the X-men have a lot of different villains the movies could use, not just Magneto. In X-men Apocalypse he retired and got married, then after the death of his family he joined apocalypse for a while as a horseman, but he was hardly the big bad there and in X-men Dark Phoenix he`s more like a neutral party, he has Genosha and lives there with some mutants who share his ideology but isn`t openly opposed to the X-men or Xavier. Most ppl think Fassbender did a really good job with Magneto and think his take on the character was one of the best things about the second trilogy of X-men movies.

[spirit2011]

Yep, and later we have the flashback in New 52 Batman Inc #2 that suggests that Bruce never even drank the drink.

He killed two characters that have built in resurrection plot devices: Lazarus Pits and Phoenix Force. DC just didn't sit on their ass like Marvel and brought Talia back quickly, as he likely knew they would. He even set up her pending resurrection himself. In a genre where death is a vacation for pretty much everyone.

They can dislike him if they want. personally, I've never cared for Talia or the al Ghuls in general before that anyway so I'm not bothered by it. She's more interesting as a threat than her father was, and I'm glad the eye rolling "beloved" crap is mostly out of the way.

No one on DC hated Talia, there is a big difference. While Morrison knew that Quesada didn't liked Jean and went ahead. and later never spoke against it, he probably agreed to it.
The two deaths were very anticlimatic, but batman inc one was really the worse. He also tarnished Talia even worse than Jean.

[Tazpocalapse]

Everyone moans about Magneto when they should be talking about Sublime.

Attachment 92268

Now that is someone i would like to see make a return. I thought he was a cool concept and great villian for the X-men and mutants in general.

[Celestialbodies]

I don't think any one arc captured the spectacle that Morrison was for the X-men he like Claremont before him, and now Hickman revitalized the X-men. Sure there are many missteps when examining the run nearly two decades later. However it was a shot it the arm, where a plateau or stagnation had settled, the X-men were meandering along with no direction.

Personally, enjoyed it as a whole the characters felt like they were moving forward, even if they were all immediately regressed, removed, or tarnished.

[SiegePerilous02]

No one on DC hated Talia, there is a big difference. While Morrison knew that Quesada didn't liked Jean and went ahead. and later never spoke against it, he probably agreed to it.
The two deaths were very anticlimatic, but batman inc one was really the worse. He also tarnished Talia even worse than Jean.

Lot's of pretty big assumptions here without much to support it but your bias. But you do you I guess.

Talia and the al Ghuls in general are pretty dated and problematic to begin with. In Morrison's run she at least seems a little more self aware of the orientalist tropes she's playing up to screw over Batman and her father. To paraphrase her, "I made myself the ultimate villain to match you in your childish little fantasy, and I did it all in my spare time." is the most awesome line she's ever uttered.

Now that is someone i would like to see make a return. I thought he was a cool concept and great villian for the X-men and mutants in general.

If there is any time to bring him back up, it's now. Magneto's antics in Planet X are ripe to be discussed in the current run, and they should reiterate the true reason behind them. None of this "Xorneto" crap.

[spirit2011]

Lot's of pretty big assumptions here without much to support it but your bias. But you do you I guess.

Talia and the al Ghuls in general are pretty dated and problematic to begin with. In Morrison's run she at least seems a little more self aware of the orientalist tropes she's playing up to screw over Batman and her father. To paraphrase her, "I made myself the ultimate villain to match you in your childish little fantasy, and I did it all in my spare time." is the most awesome line she's ever uttered.

Everybody knows Quesada doesn't like Jean same way he doesn't like Mary Jane. When asked about Jean one time he said that he liked Emma/Scott more. Other time he used his latin american as shield.
When Scott killed Charles, Morrison said it wasn't his Cyclops.

That isn't orientalism. Really sad that when Talia started to be drawn and colored as a woman of color, she went all terrorist and sociopath. It was terrible that she put her own son on risk to get back on Bruce for not loving her the way she wanted

[Zelena]

I have not heard anything of the sort closer thing I hear was that fans whished another X-men villain was brought at the center and that`s fair the X-men have a lot of different villains the movies could use, not just Magneto. In X-men Apocalypse he retired and got married, then after the death of his family he joined apocalypse for a while as a horseman, but he was hardly the big bad there and in X-men Dark Phoenix he`s more like a neutral party, he has Genosha and lives there with some mutants who share his ideology but isn`t openly opposed to the X-men or Xavier. Most ppl think Fassbender did a really good job with Magneto and think his take on the character was one of the best things about the second trilogy of X-men movies.

How Magneto went from "I am angry for the deaths of my wife and my daughter" to "I join Apocalypse to help him with his big bad plan" isn't very clear and a weakness of the plot, in my opinion…
He was rather passive then but you look it in a realistic way, he caused a lot of deaths by his destructions and at the end of the movie, he wasn't held accountable for anything. I would have preferred a good old mind control.

In the comics, when his powers were diminished, he had to fight in a short range and it was clearer how much his powers could be gross and deadly (the difference between killing at the push of a button and using a ax…). When you use your power at distance, you just see a building falling and the perception is quite different… as long as you don't come close and see the damages, you don't understand the reality of what it means. It's just cinematographic destruction that doesn't provoke much emotion…

That being said, I like Fassbender Magneto and particularly in First-Class where his actions were more logical and the writing of the story more flowing…

[Lucyinthesky]

How Magneto went from "I am angry for the deaths of my wife and my daughter" to "I join Apocalypse to help him with his big bad plan" isn't very clear and a weakness of the plot, in my opinion…
He was rather passive then but you look it in a realistic way, he caused a lot of deaths by his destructions and at the end of the movie, he wasn't held accountable for anything. I would have preferred a good old mind control.

Even without mind control all of Apocalypse horsemen acted in a very strange way so I guess that just like in the comics the transformation involves a level of brain washing, in any other circunstance if someone got into magneto`s mind while he was talking with charles that would have made him extremely pissed. There`s also the fact he just pretty much didn`t care much about anything at the moment.

In the comics, when his powers were diminished, he had to fight in a short range and it was clearer how much his powers could be gross and deadly (the difference between killing at the push of a button and using a ax…). When you use your power at distance, you just see a building falling and the perception is quite different… as long as you don't come close and see the damages, you don't understand the reality of what it means. It's just cinematographic destruction that doesn't provoke much emotion… That being said, I like Fassbender Magneto and particularly in First-Class where his actions were more logical and the writing of the story more flowing…

Yes I liked First Class too I guess the writting was thanks to Matthew Vaughn who directed it I always liked that movie better than Singer`s movies, he never quite had a good handle of Magneto`s character imo and what little exploration was there on him was thanks to Fassbender`s own initiative, not really because of the direction and writting, it was his idea to bring to light the Anya story with Nina.

[adamTPTK]

In many ways, Hocus Pocus is the anti-Morrison concept. While it acknowledges all of mutant extinctions (which is a trend set my Morrison) it's basically a throwback to Genosha before Morrison and Excalibur right after him. With Krakoa Hickman shows how much you could do with the mutant nation instead of wiping it out for shock value.