Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 789101112131415 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 226
  1. #151
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    7,308

    Default

    I would have rather not miss 14 years of good and bad takes of Jean for one "good" take on her.
    That was the biggest consecuence of this run, also that Jean has to be best friends with a woman that has only caused her pain.

  2. #152
    Fantastic Member Astroman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    498

    Default

    I loved all of Morrison's run, but then I was a HUGE "Invisibles" fan and loved that he continued certain themes over in X-Men.

  3. #153
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    7,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The love triangle /square may be pure melodrama, but the X-Men thrive on soap opera melodramatics the way the rest of us thrive on oxygen. Claremont's run was full to the brim with this. And the characters involved in the love square are being less melodramatic about it than the actual fans.
    Actually no, most people hate feeling betrayed or their ship losing, that's why people hate or care little for any of the relationships involved. Nobody actually had to deal with that drama until today that the characters are finally alive on the same place. It is a problem everybody prefered to ignore for decades and it looks like Marvel itself prefers to ignore the drama and just pretend things are in a certain way even if they aren't and keep dragging everybody down.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 01-28-2020 at 01:12 PM.

  4. #154
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Actually no, most people hate feeling betrayed or their ship loosing, that's why people hate or care little for any of the relationships involved. Nobody actually had to deal with that drama until today that the characters are finally alive on the same place. It is a problem everybody prefered to ignore for decades and it looks like Marvel itself prefers to ignore the drama and just pretend things are in a certain way even if they aren't.
    Except they are that way because the head writer and those running with his take in other books have determined it to be so.

  5. #155
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    10,637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I would have rather not miss 14 years of good and bad takes of Jean for one "good" take on her.
    That was the biggest consecuence of this run, also that Jean has to be best friends with a woman that has only caused her pain.
    The take wasn't that good to be worth. Jean didn't come out with lots of new fans because of Morrison.

    victims have to accept their abusers and people don't see it because they like Emma a lot more than understand Jean feelings. All those 14 years they were cheerishing Emma and Scott stories

  6. #156
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    7,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Except they are that way because the head writer and those running with his take in other books have determined it to be so.
    On that you're correct, Marvel just ignored years of development and handfisted certain take.

  7. #157
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    Heh, people actually think that Morrison was behind Jean's death?

  8. #158
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I would have rather not miss 14 years of good and bad takes of Jean for one "good" take on her.
    That was the biggest consecuence of this run, also that Jean has to be best friends with a woman that has only caused her pain.
    Hmmm. That's quite interesting.
    In the context of the numerous "unhappy and dissatisfied " posts here in CBR (not only the ones pertaining to Jean) this makes it all so very clear.

    While characters are written to "be able to let things go and move on" because it drives the story and develops the characters forward, some readers just aren't as emotionally equipped to do so.
    That a great deal of the angst stems from the notion that favourite characters have moved on and left their readers behind when...given the medium, it's usually vice versa where readers tend to outgrow their faves/the medium.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  9. #159
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    10,637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Buttocks View Post
    Everyone who saw it didn't , and the famous Morrison quote about Bill Jemas became quite famous amongst then-Marvel employees because of its astonishing level of accuracy



    No they didn't because Morrison said in an interview in Jun 2002 (i believe to promote the Dust debut appearance - what an anticlimax that was) he would have written up to 150 by August 2002 (at which point #130 would be released) and he always writes well ahead.

    Ron Richards, Rich Johnston, Peter Milligan and more have said that Joe Q found out mere moments before the announcement (and was legitamately furious). I'm not Joe Q's biggest fan, but it should be pointed out that Morrison's bigger frustration was Jemas, not Quesada, and the two are apparently cordial these days.

    EDIT - it should also be pointed out that Morrison did not enjoy his time at Marvel and I certainly felt that, with Assault on Weapon Plus as the exception, the rapidly fading interest he had shows in the writing. This is backed up in his book when he says the book and the conflicts with Jemas made him feel old and tired and as stale as the X-Men.

    Morrison was announced as exclusive to DC in July 2003 when it was designed to blindside Marvel. New X-Men 143 was on the stands that month, so 11 issues were remaining.


    No he didn't - Whedon was announced in 2004. Marvel's initial announcement was Chuck Austen would take over. He did two issues.


    Look, you can dislike Morrison all you like, but when dates and documented sources are available, it's really easy to prove you wrong.
    There was constant delays, Jimenez and Igor Kordey had to dray issues in two weeks. It wasn't written ahead.
    Jemas was out in october 2003, so he had zero to do with the end of Morrison run.

    Quesada took a long time to get Whedon to write comics becaus e of his TV deals.

    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    Heh, people actually think that Morrison was behind Jean's death?
    why not? he had total freedom and never spoke against it

  10. #160
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    3,868

    Default

    I love, and will always enjoy Jean and Scott's relationship, but I'm not a big shipper, so what was done with them didn't really detract what else he manged to achieve. Yes, it's still a big talking point today, and get's people in their feelings, but I don't think that should eclipse what else he did for Jean. He manged to give a really nuanced Jean, and that's something a lot of writers struggle to achieve, not just for her, but most characters IMO.

  11. #161
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    The emotional impact of the Genosha massacre only really comes later in the run, in the issue where Lorna gets rescued by the X-Men and we hear all the voices Magneto recorded from the killed Genoshans. One of the best X-Men issues of all time tbh.

    Rarely is any single comic issues as poignant, but also as fundamentally reshaping for a character as New X-Men 132 was for Lorna and her story. Dealing with the death of 16 million people who were under her protection and seeing them die in her mind for weeks and the fallout was the most compelling storyline she had without a doubt and it gave the character a vitally important anchor. Post Decimation her storyline fell into a muddle and future writers were confused about what the character believed and represented and fell back on nostalgia for decades old characterizations and themes.

    Her storyline really felt it had real cohesion from 2002-2005 then it lost it after when they fell back on old crappy mind control pathos and love triangles. Hickman was the first writer to even hint at these themes again for the character and hopefully her next set of writers pick up on what works for the character.
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-28-2020 at 01:33 PM.

  12. #162
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    Heh, people actually think that Morrison was behind Jean's death?
    That whole Xorneto plot ended so weird...and then the abrupt time jump into Here Comes Tomorrow...I would not have put it past Morrison to have said: "Sod it! I've had enough o this shite" and just hurried things along.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  13. #163
    Spectacular Member Captain Buttocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    There was constant delays, Jimenez and Igor Kordey had to dray issues in two weeks. It wasn't written ahead.
    The delays were due to art, Quitely is known for doing four pages a month. Marvel admitted as much in the letters page of issue 119. The lateness was nothing to do with scripts. If it was - how could Kordey draw it in a week? Also - the last issue to ship late was issue 120 in 2001. The book ran completely on time from 6th January 2002 when the Nuff Said issue shipped.

    Indeed the book shipped 14 issues in 2002 after getting back on track.

    Jemas was out in october 2003, so he had zero to do with the end of Morrison run.
    I'm no calendar expert, but reasonably sure July 2003, when Morrison left (specifically 20th July at the DC panel in SDCC), happened BEFORE October 2003 when Jemas left. Do you even read what people post? Oddly enough - that actually refutes you saying Joe Quesada saying the row didn't happen, because the reported reply from Joe when Morrison made his famous quote was "Forget him! He wont be here much longer anyway!" (Due to Ike Perlmutter getting angry phone calls IIRC)

  14. #164
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I would have rather not miss 14 years of good and bad takes of Jean for one "good" take on her.
    That was the biggest consecuence of this run, also that Jean has to be best friends with a woman that has only caused her pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Hmmm. That's quite interesting.
    In the context of the numerous "unhappy and dissatisfied " posts here in CBR (not only the ones pertaining to Jean) this makes it all so very clear.

    While characters are written to "be able to let things go and move on" because it drives the story and develops the characters forward, some readers just aren't as emotionally equipped to do so.
    That a great deal of the angst stems from the notion that favourite characters have moved on and left their readers behind when...given the medium, it's usually vice versa where readers tend to outgrow their faves/the medium.
    "Let go and move on"? That's a terrible way to deal with abuse and abusers. It should not be on the victim to 'get over it' for the sake of everyone. ESPECIALLY in situations like here, where the abuser faces no consequences whatsoever. Whenever these sorts of relationships appear in X comics, why is it always the victim who has to forgive the abuser? The monstrous characters never need to make amends and rarely even apologize.

    We never saw them hashing things out. The writers created this nasty, messy emotional situation and then didn't have to guts to conclude things in a meaningful way. Off-panel 'they made up' stories are the worst ways to end things.

  15. #165
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Her character... almost all characters who are "Super Pals" either get killed off, Limbo'd or get powers themselves
    Her character begun expressing it's Extinction gene
    I am not saying Hickman was wrong by making her a mutant and yes she had a long time being dead before he brought her back, it`s just that deep relationships between X-men and baseline humans are quite rare, even more so ones with both Charles and Magneto where both of them respected her in her own right because she was quite good at her job but this doesn`t I don`t like or don`t enjoy Moira X in fact I am waiting to see a little more of her in Dawn of X.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •