Looking back on E for Extinction

[starduck]

An audience is required for acts of heroism?

(WE did. The readership witnessed her actions. WE know. It’s still less engagement than what I’ve grown to expect from the author of Animal Man and Zatanna, but it’s a pretty intimate act that ONLY the reader knows that Jean Grey changed the past by persuading Cyclops to choose hope over despair.)

QQ and the rest of the Phoenix corps saw it, I think. Also I loved that shot of his Zatanna mini of her reaching out to the readers

It makes it more impactiful like stark dead on Endgame

I think her doing it without no one she knows seeing it makes it more selfless

[CRaymond]

It makes it more impactiful like stark dead on Endgame

So you need more fan service?

[spirit2011]

I think her doing it without no one she knows seeing it makes it more selfless

Of course she is selfless, impossible for someone be alive on future to see her saving the universe. Jean doesn't need to showing, that i snot the point. Jean deserves some glory, specially that she continued to be dead for so long.

Xorneto killed her and 5 seconds later Wolverine killed him. what a joke

[CRaymond]

I can’t take any of this seriously.

Xorneto was a terrible retcon. It was Magneto, feeling old, desperate, and righteously angry... giving Phoenix an electromagnetic aneurysm. It broke her brain and prevented her from fixing her body. Magneto’s “make me immortal” line is both straight up prescient in a day filled with incel murderers feeling owed their supremacy, and subverted, in that his life and image went from being a symbol of liberation to outright terrorism. He effectively turned PHOENIX into a symbol.

[starduck]

Of course she is selfless, impossible for someone be alive on future to see her saving the universe. Jean doesn't need to showing, that i snot the point. Jean deserves some glory, specially that she continue to be dead for so long.

Xorneto killed her and 5 seconds later Wolverine killed him. what a joke

I agree. I think Jean is doing great in X-Force and febraury will have a lot of Jean Grey in it

[spirit2011]

I can’t take any of this seriously.

Xorneto was a terrible retcon. It was Magneto, feeling old, desperate, and righteously angry... giving Phoenix an electromagnetic aneurysm. It broke her brain and prevented her from fixing her body. Magneto’s “make me immortal” line is both straight up prescient in a day filled with incel murderers feeling owed their supremacy, and subverted, in that his life and image went from being a symbol of liberation to outright terrorism. He effectively turned PHOENIX into a symbol.

There is a lot of Magneto was right, while phoenix was passed around.

Magneto was feeling old and still had the power to kill Jean? He touched her on the hands, there was enough time for her stop it. That just made Phoenix weaker and of course Jean was punish for being empathetic.
Later Wolverine kill him so easy.

[CRaymond]

Nope I’m done. I know you feel hurt by your reading of the text, but that wasn’t my experience reading NXM, nor many others’. I won’t walk into your quicksand. You can try walking on my coals.

[spirit2011]

Nope I’m done. I know you feel hurt by your reading of the text, but that wasn’t my experience reading NXM, nor many others’. I won’t walk into your quicksand. You can try walking on my coals.

I don't feel hurt, but I definately doesn't think it is the clever writing that deserves all the praises.

there is a lot of sexism that is directed towards Jean, because she isn't the female role model Morrison wanted to be the lead of his run

[CRaymond]

I don't feel hurt, but I definately doesn't think it is the clever writing that deserves all the praises.

there is a lot of sexism that is directed towards Jean, because she isn't the female role model Morrison wanted to be the lead of his run

And that is YOUR view. There may be sexism in the book, that's open for debate, but I never thought Jean was underserved or poorly represented.

[phoenixzero23]

I don't feel hurt, but I definately doesn't think it is the clever writing that deserves all the praises.

there is a lot of sexism that is directed towards Jean, because she isn't the female role model Morrison wanted to be the lead of his run

I agree. Also from it stems some really awful things that drag the franchice down to this day. Like that dumb love square.

[Captain Buttocks]

Quesada denied it.

Everyone who saw it didn't , and the famous Morrison quote about Bill Jemas became quite famous amongst then-Marvel employees because of its astonishing level of accuracy

And for what I know they had a coversation because Morrison signed a exclusive with DC while not finished his run.

No they didn't because Morrison said in an interview in Jun 2002 (i believe to promote the Dust debut appearance - what an anticlimax that was) he would have written up to 150 by August 2002 (at which point #130 would be released) and he always writes well ahead.

Ron Richards, Rich Johnston, Peter Milligan and more have said that Joe Q found out mere moments before the announcement (and was legitamately furious). I'm not Joe Q's biggest fan, but it should be pointed out that Morrison's bigger frustration was Jemas, not Quesada, and the two are apparently cordial these days.

EDIT - it should also be pointed out that Morrison did not enjoy his time at Marvel and I certainly felt that, with Assault on Weapon Plus as the exception, the rapidly fading interest he had shows in the writing. This is backed up in his book when he says the book and the conflicts with Jemas made him feel old and tired and as stale as the X-Men.

Morrison was announced as exclusive to DC in July 2003 when it was designed to blindside Marvel. New X-Men 143 was on the stands that month, so 11 issues were remaining.

Remembered that Quesada already had Whedon/cassaday to take over

No he didn't - Whedon was announced in 2004. Marvel's initial announcement was Chuck Austen would take over. He did two issues.


Look, you can dislike Morrison all you like, but when dates and documented sources are available, it's really easy to prove you wrong.

[spirit2011]

And that is YOUR view. There may be sexism in the book, that's open for debate, but I never thought Jean was underserved or poorly represented.

Morrison is known for being awful with female characters. I have a fellow fan of Superman and she always talked about how Morrison was overrated and was really bad take on Lois. I didn't really listened to her, I was in denial.
Then it came earth one Wonder Woman, his interviews, Batman Inc offing Thalia. I got reflecting on that and what he did with Jean got a lot worse because i really lost the image that Morrison couldn't do any wrong.

I agree. Also from it stems some really awful things that drag the franchice down to this day. Like that dumb love square.

That I think it is the big difference between Claremont and Morrison: Claremont uplifted the franchise. While Morrison dragged it down.
Of course the character that got it worse was Jean

[Soulsword323]

I love that the conversation is now just discussing Morrison's run as a whole lol.

Anyway, to this day Morrison remains one of Jean's best writers. Her death to Magneto was nonsense, but outside of that, he did so much to push her character forward and trumped anything that happened in the 90s.

[Captain Buttocks]

I love that the conversation is now just discussing Morrison's run as a whole lol.

Anyway, to this day Morrison remains one of Jean's best writers. Her death to Magneto was nonsense, but outside of that, he did so much to push her character forward and trumped anything that happened in the 90s.

I loved the cover to #120. Great Jean, and the way she owned the U-Men.

Oddly enough, when i revisited the GM interviews for my previous post, it was interesting to see his take on the characters...they're from a CBR interview, so I suppose its cool to quote...

"Professor x - the headmaster," explains Morrison. "A man with big ideas which aren't always understood by people who ain't as smart as himself.

"Cyclops - repressed, utterly noble, brutally hard on himself

"Jean Grey - tries so hard to be good she sometimes forgets to be human.

"Emma Frost - sexy, devious, villain-turned-hero, the ultimate self-made woman,

"Beast - brilliant, witty, bipolar scientist.

"Logan - dirty zen brawler with heart of gold and a hint of desperate vulnerability."

I definitely loved Jean, Scott and (sadly) Xorn the most.

[SiegePerilous02]

Morrison is known for being awful with female characters. I have a fellow fan of Superman and she always talked about how Morrison was overrated and was really bad take on Lois. I didn't really listened to her, I was in denial.
Then it came earth one Wonder Woman, his interviews, Batman Inc offing Thalia. I got reflecting on that and what he did with Jean got a lot worse because i really lost the image that Morrison couldn't do any wrong.



That I think it is the big difference between Claremont and Morrison: Claremont uplifted the franchise. While Morrison dragged it down.
Of course the character that got it worse was Jean

He's not really known for it, not the point that we can blindly apply a "bad with female characters" statement to him.

He's fine with Lois when he uses her. He perhaps doesn't use her enough, but honestly certain segments of the Superman fanbase will react badly if Clois isn't front and center and the thing Clark's character revolves around 24/7 (the opposite end of the spectrum to the fans who pin the blame for everything on Lois and/or the marriage). He's the best modern Superman writer there is. He stumbles pretty weirdly (in some respects, badly) with Wonder Woman and the Amazons. On the other hand, he writes one of the best ever versions of Etta Candy ever. And comes up with legit scary and cool female villains like Cassandra Nova, Belzebeth and Glorianna Tenebrae. As with most writers, it's a case by case basis.

Jean isn't one of his failures though. Neither is Emma. The love triangle /square may be pure melodrama, but the X-Men thrive on soap opera melodramatics the way the rest of us thrive on oxygen. Claremont's run was full to the brim with this. And the characters involved in the love square are being less melodramatic about it than the actual fans.

I love that the conversation is now just discussing Morrison's run as a whole lol.

Anyway, to this day Morrison remains one of Jean's best writers. Her death to Magneto was nonsense, but outside of that, he did so much to push her character forward and trumped anything that happened in the 90s.

Magneto killing her was pretty unsatisfying, but I think shifting right into Here Comes Tomorrow and essentially making her the ultimate redeemer (with a lot of cool Biblical/mythic imagery thrown in) more than makes up for it for me.

Not so much the runs that came after...