Looking back on E for Extinction

[Devaishwarya]

"Let go and move on"? That's a terrible way to deal with abuse and abusers. It should not be on the victim to 'get over it' for the sake of everyone. ESPECIALLY in situations like here, where the abuser faces no consequences whatsoever. Whenever these sorts of relationships appear in X comics, why is it always the victim who has to forgive the abuser? The monstrous characters never need to make amends and rarely even apologize.

We never saw them hashing things out. The writers created this nasty, messy emotional situation and then didn't have to guts to conclude things in a meaningful way. Off-panel 'they made up' stories are the worst ways to end things.

Then...
I can only suggest you write a strongly worded but respectful letter to the writers and editors of the X-Office addressing your concerns on the matter of characters moving on.

[yogaflame]

That whole Xorneto plot ended so weird...and then the abrupt time jump into Here Comes Tomorrow...I would not have put it past Morrison to have said: "Sod it! I've had enough o this shite" and just hurried things along.

Yeah, that's what it felt like. His ending was horrible, but sometime a professional relationship breaks down like that.

[Beaddle]

Heh, people actually think that Morrison was behind Jean's death?

Whoever was behind it, we know Jean always dies so it does not matter. on the brighter side, her death was not in vain, it was done to give Cyclops a whole new character makeover, that was great.

[spirit2011]

Whoever was behind it, we know Jean always dies so it does not matter. on the brighter side, her death was not in vain, it was done to give Cyclops a whole new character makeover, that was great.

We know that because Morrison killed Jean. Now it is easy to say, but at the time her dead wasn't a sure thing.

And that is called fridging. Manpain is not interesting, if a character needs it means they aren't very interesting to begin

women in refrigerators is a tired and awful trope, IDK why Jean dead isn't called out more

"Let go and move on"? That's a terrible way to deal with abuse and abusers. It should not be on the victim to 'get over it' for the sake of everyone. ESPECIALLY in situations like here, where the abuser faces no consequences whatsoever. Whenever these sorts of relationships appear in X comics, why is it always the victim who has to forgive the abuser? The monstrous characters never need to make amends and rarely even apologize.

We never saw them hashing things out. The writers created this nasty, messy emotional situation and then didn't have to guts to conclude things in a meaningful way. Off-panel 'they made up' stories are the worst ways to end things.

Said very well. I'm not good with words and you wrote very well what is to be victim of abuse on society.
Yesterday came a post to me on twitter where a woman complain tha 2 female relatives wanted her to forgive and get over her male relative abuser.

They made a big deal of the drama, now they want to solve it all offpanel without giving Jean any insight into it. Marvel can't have Emma or Scott looking bad for what they done. Morrison enginnered his run to make people sympathic to scott and emma, but not to feel bad for Jean.

[Lucyinthesky]

We know that because Morrison killed Jean. Now it is easy to say, but at the time her dead wasn't a sure thing.

And that is called fridging. Manpain is not interesting, if a character needs it means they aren't very interesting to begin

women in refrigerators is a tired and awful trope, IDK why Jean dead isn't called out more



Said very well. I'm not good with words and you wrote very well what is to be victim of abuse on society.
Yesterday came a post to me on twitter where a woman complain tha 2 female relatives wanted her to forgive and get over her male relative abuser.

They made a big deal of the drama, now they want to solve it all offpanel without giving Jean any insight into it. Marvel can't have Emma or Scott looking bad for what they done. Morrison enginnered his run to make people sympathic to scott and emma, but not to feel bad for Jean.

I agree.

I understand this has not been talked about by the characters because Jean was dead but now that they are all back together, working and living on the same place yes it`s time to tackle this issue. I would just like to see Jean being angry at Scott too not just Emma because sometimes I feel that in this kind of situation the person you trusted because they were your wife/husband hurts you more because you trusts and care for them and not just the person they cheat with, especially since Emma and Jean never were close and both had reasons to dislike each other before the affair. I don`t buy the version of "poor Scott was confused because of Apocalypse" when it was quite clear in the comic he still was able to make his own decisions. It could even be a good oportunity to explore and bring to light Scott`s own issues with telepaths(Charles, Sinister, Jean, Emma) trying to control or supervise his emotions all his life and his probable problems with Jean`s own close relationship with Logan previous to his relationship with Emma.

Then it would be fine for the characters to move on without forgetting all their pov`s I think it would be an interesting and heartfel story to read.

[Vishop]

why not? he had total freedom and never spoke against it

NO. Quesada was responsible. He was also responsible for Spidey and Mary Jane's separation(same as Scott and Jean). He was also responsible for Gwen/Osborn bs. No to mention he almost annihilated all of the mutants from House of M. Then there is X-Men Deadly Genesis and Original Sin. Those were deadly retcons and most of it come under Quesada's editorial mandate.

The ending of NXM was so much abrupt especially with Xorneto and Here Comes Tomorrow was weird.
Morrison is actually a great writer. He has written so many big worldbuilding books. He wrote great a Jean character, arguably the best character in NXM.

[yogaflame]

I just can't believe Morrison wanted Storm to have the affair with Cyclops at first. Even if it did sideline her in the modern age, I'm glad Lord Claremont swiped her for X-Treme, and Morrison shifted to Emma instead. Jean and Ororo fighting over Scott would just make me puke.

[BroHomo]

also that Jean has to be best friends with a woman that has only caused her pain.

Huh Jeans oh recently returned to mainstay status in XBooks. Annnnd haven't seen Jean declare Emma as her new bestie

Whenever these sorts of relationships appear in X comics, why is it always the victim who has to forgive the abuser? The monstrous characters never need to make amends and rarely even apologize.

Err How many times have you seen this type of relationship in the X-Books??
Also how is Jean getting abused??

We never saw them hashing things out. The writers created this nasty, messy emotional situation and then didn't have to guts to conclude things in a meaningful way.

There's been a sh!t ton of emotional character moments that has "happened off panel" I would say this isn't the norm for the X-Books but now that I'm thinking about it The highly emotional soap opera that is typical of the Claremont days is the exception most runs at the Big 2. Not saying writers today are worse than they've been in the past just different. Claremonts almost 2 decade run in the X-Books is practically unheard of today
Annnnyway in this situation where Key moments of character interaction happens off panel Its best to use your head Canon to fill in for the missing panels...that way the characters move forward naturally + you get to imagine and create a satisfactory conclusion!!

Off-panel 'they made up' stories are the worst ways to end things.

well you've got no one to blame but yourself

DK why Jean dead isn't called out more.

Cause she's alive??

[Devaishwarya]

Seeing as there are so many needing resolution and closure on a decades-old plot...we should start a petition. Nothing gets the social media attention like a good petition. It won't guarantee the writers or editors give it serious consideration (17-18 years is a long time to be holding on to isht especially when so much has changed for the characters since then...even allowing for the sliding time scale...Jean died, stayed dead and was only resurrected 5 mins ago...) but it will shine a spotlight on the lack of resolution for victimised fictional characters and the emotional trauma they must continually endure.

Seriously...start a petition. *not being sarcastic or flippant

[spirit2011]

I agree.

I understand this has not been talked about by the characters because Jean was dead but now that they are all back together, working and living on the same place yes it`s time to tackle this issue. I would just like to see Jean being angry at Scott too not just Emma because sometimes I feel that in this kind of situation the person you trusted because they were your wife/husband hurts you more because you trusts and care for them and not just the person they cheat with, especially since Emma and Jean never were close and both had reasons to dislike each other before the affair. I don`t buy the version of "poor Scott was confused because of Apocalypse" when it was quite clear in the comic he still was able to make his own decisions. It could even be a good oportunity to explore and bring to light Scott`s own issues with telepaths(Charles, Sinister, Jean, Emma) trying to control or supervise his emotions all his life and his probable problems with Jean`s own close relationship with Logan previous to his relationship with Emma.

Then it would be fine for the characters to move on without forgetting all their pov`s I think it would be an interesting and heartfel story to read.

Morrison didn't thought it was cheating, he even said it wasn't on a interview. Of ocurse the reasons he doesn't think are moot, because all the time it is Jean trying to get sex with Scott and he is being frigid with her.
On the dialogue Scott thinks of himself as hero because he refused to have phisical sex with Emma. LOL That is infuriating
I even give a bit of benefit of doubt on the beginning, I really think Emma sexually assaulted him. But later he knew it was cheating and he could stop it and tell Jean, he prefered to continue cheating behind Jean back. And also he was going to choose, so he wasn't confused anymore.

Jean was never allowed to be mad on him, because for Morrison Scott did nothing wrong. he broke her trust and then run away.
Really bad that they killed Jean, never let her process this and it was all solved on one page.

Morrison lost many chances to really go deep on the plot points he had. Even Genosha felt like a cheap plot device instead of being THE STORY.
Scott has a lot to deal about telepaths

characters move on doesn't mean they all should be friends.

Cause she's alive??

she wasn't alive for 14 years and fandom was really soft on that

I just can't believe Morrison wanted Storm to have the affair with Cyclops at first. Even if it did sideline her in the modern age, I'm glad Lord Claremont swiped her for X-Treme, and Morrison shifted to Emma instead. Jean and Ororo fighting over Scott would just make me puke.

I don't think that was true at all. But the thought of it make me nauseous

NO. Quesada was responsible. He was also responsible for Spidey and Mary Jane's separation(same as Scott and Jean). He was also responsible for Gwen/Osborn bs. No to mention he almost annihilated all of the mutants from House of M. Then there is X-Men Deadly Genesis and Original Sin. Those were deadly retcons and most of it come under Quesada's editorial mandate.

The ending of NXM was so much abrupt especially with Xorneto and Here Comes Tomorrow was weird.
Morrison is actually a great writer. He has written so many big worldbuilding books. He wrote great a Jean character, arguably the best character in NXM.

If Quesada had his way, Xorneto mess would never happen. Morrison was free to write what he wanted, he just couldn't do flashbacks because of Jemas.
There was another poster here that said that Jemas that was the problem, but he was long gone when last issue was published.

Quesada deserves blame for what happened later but Jean dead is on Morrison.
He just did the same thing on Batman Inc. IDK why people act like Morrison wouldn't do this with Jean

[Lucyinthesky]

Whedon on Astonishing X-men made a wonderful exploration of Scott and Emma relationship writing them in a sympathetic way but he didn`t pretend it was anything but an affair, hence you have Logan`s fight with Scott and later the other X-men reservations about Scott`s choices or even Rachel chosing to keep the Grey name and forget Summers for a while, all those are interesting and very human reactions and it was nice to see them be explored by different writers. Whatever Morrison thought doesn`t really matter in the end because other stories have made clear it was an affair.

No, I don`t buy that Emma sexually assaulted him, he has been in a relationship with a telepath his whole life, he knows that for them sometimes the phychic plane is even more real than the physical one and I think it`s a cheap trick to absolve Scott of all responsibility by having "cruel manipulative Emma forcing poor Scott into cheating with his wife" it was more complicated than that because even Morrison added a scene of Jean almost kissing logan before the affair and I don`t think that was a coincidence.

Yes Jean totally needs to be mad at Scott too on this I agree completely and yes the characters advancing post their old problems doesn`t mean at all they should be friends, it adds more realism to the story when writers add believable reactions to the things that happen to them. I am not saying DoX should make this story a priority but just like the Scott and Maddie situation it can be managed between stories imo.

[spirit2011]

Whedon on Astonishing X-men made a wonderful exploration of Scott and Emma relationship writing them in a sympathetic way but he didn`t pretend it was anything but an affair, hence you have Logan`s fight with Scott and later the other X-men reservations about Scott`s choices or even Rachel chosing to keep the Grey name and forget Summers for a while, all those are interesting and very human reactions and it was nice to see them be explored by different writers. Whatever Morrison thought doesn`t really matter in the end because other stories have made clear it was an affair.

No, I don`t buy that Emma sexually assaulted him, he has been in a relationship with a telepath his whole life, he knows that for them sometimes the phychic plane is even more real than the physical one and I think it`s a cheap trick to absolve Scott of all responsibility by having "cruel manipulative Emma forcing poor Scott into cheating with his wife" it was more complicated than that because even Morrison added a scene of Jean almost kissing logan before the affair and I don`t think that was a coincidence.

Yes Jean totally needs to be mad at Scott too on this I agree completely and yes the characters advancing post their old problems doesn`t mean at all they should be friends, it adds more realism to the story when writers add believable reactions to the things that happen to them. I am not saying DoX should make this story a priority but just like the Scott and Maddie situation it can be managed between stories imo.

It is possible that Scott got sexually assaulted and still cheated? of course it is. He ask Emma is TP sex is part of the therapy, she say yes, he trusts her.
He saw it wasn't therapy but continued because he liked it. he made the decision. so it was cheating.

Well morrison did everything possible to make Jean look bad;

[pkingdom]

I wasn't aware of the whole Madelyn Pryor thing until recently. That's a gigantic pile of YIKES.

[BroHomo]

Jean Grey in Morrison's New Men is Honestly the ONLY iteration of the character that I like. I couldn't STAND Jean Grey pre-Hickman, couldn't STAND Ultimate Jean Grey in the Aoa, in X-Factor. Her fans can be a lil myopic in discussions as well. I get during Those 14 years more characters/issues got discussed because of lack of Jean Grwy news.
I apologise for my part in perpetuating the 'Jean Bomb'

But Annnnyway E is for Extinction will forever be a special storyline since I got back into comics after seeing this cover...

Emma is that Bitch'that'll borrow your dude then save your Life.

Awww

[spirit2011]

I wasn't aware of the whole Madelyn Pryor thing until recently. That's a gigantic pile of YIKES.

This one is more on editorial. Shooter screwed the story so bad twice