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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I mean... Yeah?

    He couldn't take a direct shot from the deathstar laser obviously, but being on the planet's surface when it blows up? There are rocks and such that survive that, and he's infinitely tougher than a rock. There's nothing bracing him against that force (he's not getting slammed against the arena wall) either.

    So yeah, he gets blasted into space, maybe even hurt somewhat, he summons his axe, he flies or bifrosts away.
    1: How many megatons do you feel would equal a punch from Hulk, Kurse or Thanos? How powerful are the people in Hulk's weightclass? Class 100? Mountain busters? Moon movers? City busters?

    2: Why do you feel a bit of space debris invalidates the obvious continent busting+ forces one would have exert to eject said debris off of the dying, exploding fireball that used to be a planet?

    3: The single reactor pulse that the Deathstar used on Jeddha wasnt even remotely busting the planet. It was a mere "extinction level event". How well do you feel Thor would handle being 1 kilometer away from its blast origin? You can find it easily on YouTube.

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    And as far as planet busting - the Bifrost is canonically capable of busting a planet. Stormbreaker is capable of summoning the Bifrost. So, there is absolutely no reason at all to surmise that he can't use it in that fashion. He just has to turn it on, and leave it there, then boom.

    I really don't see a viable argument for allowing him to call the Bifrost but saying "well, it doesn't work that way in this specific case" when that is never presented.

    I mean, unless you just don't want to give him that capability, despite having the power to summon the thing that has that power. But it's just your own choice in that case.

    In any case, to eventually beat the empire, he wouldn't need to use that power: he's got more than enough juice to annihilate command centers without planet busting.

    And no, I'm obviously not remotely claiming he can bust a planet without the Bifrost. Please.
    The Bifrost has been shown to be summoned in multiple methods over the years and by multiple operators. Can Heimdall bust a planet? He can "summon" it. How about Odin? He used dark matter to "summon" it. If the Bifrost is REALLY just the Bifrost, certainly they are all planet killers?

    My biggest point here is that bullets are simple concepts but the quality of the "gun" matters.
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  2. #17
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post


    I'll have to see some proof Thor can survive that.
    There are big rocks and stuff left over after death star shots. Are you saying you believe that rocks are tougher than MCU Thor?

    Again, this is not remotely claiming that the guy could take getting hit by a direct shot from the cannon, but it has no ability at all to target a single human-sized foe that moves, so that's not his concern really.

    This is an argument that has come up before, of course: being on a planet that gets exploded underneath you does not REMOTELY subject you to planet-busting force. And Thor survives just fine getting his ship exploded around him when he's inside the thing. And then floating in space for an indeterminate time.

    So yeah, I'd say he's surviving that kind of thing. The issue of course, is that he's never going to be sitting on a planet just for it to be exploded. He's going to be actively fighting them with his ability to teleport intergalactically, high speed flight, crazy weather manipulation, massive energy projection and basic invulnerability to everything on his foe's forces EXCEPT for their planet-busters.
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  3. #18
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    1: How many megatons do you feel would equal a punch from Hulk, Kurse or Thanos? How powerful are the people in Hulk's weightclass? Class 100? Mountain busters? Moon movers? City busters?

    2: Why do you feel a bit of space debris invalidates the obvious continent busting+ forces one would have exert to eject said debris off of the dying, exploding fireball that used to be a planet?

    3: The single reactor pulse that the Deathstar used on Jeddha wasnt even remotely busting the planet. It was a mere "extinction level event". How well do you feel Thor would handle being 1 kilometer away from its blast origin? You can find it easily on YouTube.



    The Bifrost has been shown to be summoned in multiple methods over the years and by multiple operators. Can Heimdall bust a planet? He can "summon" it. How about Odin? He used dark matter to "summon" it. If the Bifrost is REALLY just the Bifrost, certainly they are all planet killers?

    My biggest point here is that bullets are simple concepts but the quality of the "gun" matters.
    The Bifrost is used just a handful of times across all of the films.

    It is explicitly stated that using it and leaving it turned on will bust a planet. It is used one time like that, and turned off before it can accomplish the feat of destroying the planet, but there is absolutely no reason to doubt that it would have destroyed Jotunheim. It isn't a weapon, technically - it's just a thing that requires an astronomical amount of energy to operate, and therefore leaving it on will have catastrophic consequences. Heimdahl is asked if he can leave the bridge open, and his response is that leaving it open would subject Jotunheim to the full power of the bifrost, which would destroy the planet. Obviously this is convenient: Loki didn't know this, and this is why he later knows to use the Bifrost to destroy the planet.

    There is absolutely no reason to believe that any specific Bifrosting is any bit less potent than any other - that's just wishcasting. At no time is it ever remotely suggested that one Bifrost is stronger or weaker than another, and every instance of it being used functions in exactly the same way.

    So if you want to believe that one version is weaker or stronger than another, again, this is strictly opinion with literally no basis in anything we see on screen. Yes, you can absolutely argue that, because one source is different from another, it's different, but again, that is absolutely not shown on screen - it's never even HINTED at.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

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  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    There are big rocks and stuff left over after death star shots. Are you saying you believe that rocks are tougher than MCU Thor?

    Again, this is not remotely claiming that the guy could take getting hit by a direct shot from the cannon, but it has no ability at all to target a single human-sized foe that moves, so that's not his concern really.

    This is an argument that has come up before, of course: being on a planet that gets exploded underneath you does not REMOTELY subject you to planet-busting force. And Thor survives just fine getting his ship exploded around him when he's inside the thing. And then floating in space for an indeterminate time.

    So yeah, I'd say he's surviving that kind of thing. The issue of course, is that he's never going to be sitting on a planet just for it to be exploded. He's going to be actively fighting them with his ability to teleport intergalactically, high speed flight, crazy weather manipulation, massive energy projection and basic invulnerability to everything on his foe's forces EXCEPT for their planet-busters.
    Nobody here believes Thor is weaker then a rock. But obviously, being on an exploding planet subjects you to far beyond rock destroying forces. It subjects you to planet destroying forces.

    Note: I am not claiming this means the equivalent thing as tanking a planet buster. You are absolutely right in claiming that being on an exploding planet is a far weaker feat then being at the epicenter of an attack that can destroy a planet. The forces are vastly different. But still ridiculously beyond MCU Thor's durability.

    Being on an exploding planet, at /minimum/ is verging into "I can tank continent busting forces or major island busting forces". For sure. Its Class 100 nonsense. The amount of energy required to break up something the size of a planet- mostly vaporize the thing- and then toss what little remains into the far flung reaches of space is measured in many megatons (at minimum!!!) of force on any given portion of the planet's surface you could find.

    These are the kind of feats touted out when discussing high end Green Lantern feats and presented as the sort of thing that would give Class 100's headaches. Being knocked out from an exploding spaceship is not some sort of evidence for Thor to survive anything approaching this scale of feat.

    So again I feel I need to ask these specific questions-

    1: How many megatons do you feel would equal a punch from Hulk, Kurse or Thanos? How powerful are the people in Hulk's weightclass? Class 100? Mountain busters? Moon movers? City busters?

    2: Why do you feel a bit of space debris invalidates the obvious continent busting+ forces one would have exert to eject said debris off of the dying, exploding fireball that used to be a planet?

    3: The single reactor pulse that the Deathstar used on Jeddha wasnt even remotely busting the planet. It was a mere "extinction level event". How well do you feel Thor would handle being 1 kilometer away from its blast origin? You can find it easily on YouTube.

    As a side note: Star Destroyers basic armament could also hurt Thor based on the size of asteroids they were flash vaporizing. Not that it matters. I generally agree with your threat assessment that Thor could wreck shop on the Empire.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 01-31-2020 at 07:02 AM.
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  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    The Bifrost is used just a handful of times across all of the films.

    It is explicitly stated that using it and leaving it turned on will bust a planet. It is used one time like that, and turned off before it can accomplish the feat of destroying the planet, but there is absolutely no reason to doubt that it would have destroyed Jotunheim. It isn't a weapon, technically - it's just a thing that requires an astronomical amount of energy to operate, and therefore leaving it on will have catastrophic consequences. Heimdahl is asked if he can leave the bridge open, and his response is that leaving it open would subject Jotunheim to the full power of the bifrost, which would destroy the planet. Obviously this is convenient: Loki didn't know this, and this is why he later knows to use the Bifrost to destroy the planet.

    There is absolutely no reason to believe that any specific Bifrosting is any bit less potent than any other - that's just wishcasting. At no time is it ever remotely suggested that one Bifrost is stronger or weaker than another, and every instance of it being used functions in exactly the same way.

    So if you want to believe that one version is weaker or stronger than another, again, this is strictly opinion with literally no basis in anything we see on screen. Yes, you can absolutely argue that, because one source is different from another, it's different, but again, that is absolutely not shown on screen - it's never even HINTED at.
    I dont believe one version is necessarily stronger then another. I believe the energy requirements and stresses of keeping the thing active probably vary from point of origin to point of origin.

    The rainbow bridge appeared to be hooked up to all of Asgard. Destroying it mid firing created a giant explosion that later bridge destructions did NOT cause when the beam WASN'T firing. It appeared to be drawing in huge quantities of energy.

    Huge quantities of energy that sometimes Dark Matter is also cashed in for. Loki was fairly astounded at Thor arriving despite the damaged bridge. Heimdall himself seemed to have a very limited amount of energy he could draw upon. He could move the Hulk with a prayer for example, but seemed incapable of evacuating Asgard solo.

    Summoning the Bifrost =/= keeping the Bifrost active indefinitely is my point, based on the context of the energy requirements for the thing. Before I can call Thor a planet buster, I would much prefer to see him do more then just move a group of people from one spot to another.

    Or again, do you feel Heimdall can planet bust?
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  6. #21
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Nobody here believes Thor is weaker then a rock. But obviously, being on an exploding planet subjects you to far beyond rock destroying forces. It subjects you to planet destroying forces.

    Note: I am not claiming this means the equivalent thing as tanking a planet buster. You are absolutely right in claiming that being on an exploding planet is a far weaker feat then being at the epicenter of an attack that can destroy a planet. The forces are vastly different. But still ridiculously beyond MCU Thor's durability.

    Being on an exploding planet, at /minimum/ is verging into "I can tank continent busting forces or major island busting forces". For sure. Its Class 100 nonsense. The amount of energy required to break up something the size of a planet- mostly vaporize the thing- and then toss what little remains into the far flung reaches of space is measured in many megatons (at minimum!!!) of force on any given portion of the planet's surface you could find.

    These are the kind of feats touted out when discussing high end Green Lantern feats and presented as the sort of thing that would give Class 100's headaches. Being knocked out from an exploding spaceship is not some sort of evidence for Thor to survive anything approaching this scale of feat.

    So again I feel I need to ask these specific questions-

    1: How many megatons do you feel would equal a punch from Hulk, Kurse or Thanos? How powerful are the people in Hulk's weightclass? Class 100? Mountain busters? Moon movers? City busters?

    2: Why do you feel a bit of space debris invalidates the obvious continent busting+ forces one would have exert to eject said debris off of the dying, exploding fireball that used to be a planet?

    3: The single reactor pulse that the Deathstar used on Jeddha wasnt even remotely busting the planet. It was a mere "extinction level event". How well do you feel Thor would handle being 1 kilometer away from its blast origin? You can find it easily on YouTube.

    As a side note: Star Destroyers basic armament could also hurt Thor based on the size of asteroids they were flash vaporizing. Not that it matters. I generally agree with your threat assessment that Thor could wreck shop on the Empire.
    I get what you are saying, I just vastly disagree on the forces in question. If you hit a planet with a weapon that, whatever, causes a massive fusion reaction in the core of a planet, or superheats it to plasma, or whatever, "all" you need to bust the planet is enough to override gravity - significantly in the case of something that launches chunks pretty far, but still just that. And a single 6'4" or whatever tall human shape would in no way whatsoever be subjected to continent busting amounts of force.

    Yes, people have trotted out "sleeps through a planet blowing up underneath them" as a way to quantify autoshields, but trying to equate that to taking a shot from a continent-buster is silly and generally swatted away pretty fast.

    And if there was something resistant that Thor's form was smashing into here, sure, maybe he takes more force, but in this case, planet goes boom boom, Thor just gets chucked into space. And that isn't going to bother him at all - many feats to the contrary show this. He'll suffer a bit in the launch, probably, but the dude laughs off or toughs through or quickly shakes off punches and outright beatings from Kurse, Hulk, etc.

    Again, if we can quantify the force hitting single things on the surface of the planet, and quantify it well, I'd be open to changing my mind here, but trying to say that a 6 foot ish human shape on the surface of the planet is getting hit by continent busting forces here is, for me, very extreme as it vastly oversells what we see and what it would need to be to get the desired planet-splodey effect.
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  7. #22

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    Tsar Bomba goes off 50 feet from MCU Thor. How well off is he after the fact?

    It feels like you are trying to suggest the forces he will be subjected to via planet destruction (heat, shockwaves, acceleration, general kinetic explodey stuff) is somehow less then even the Tzar Bomba was. It feels like you are suggesting the exploding planet will propel him outwards on a soft cushy gently accelerating wave of force. Like getting launched of those summer camp Blob things in a lake.

    Being on an exploding planet is easily in the continent to major island busting force range and I would STRONGLY disagree with anyone who said otherwise. Not just you. A tectonic plate is a tiny tiny piece of a planet in the scope of the whole thing.
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  8. #23
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    I should also point out that Thor was also KOed by the Sokovia explosion.

    Soooo yeah. Not sure how he's noping a planet explosion now.
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  9. #24
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    In fact, I'm just going to put a cork in this since it's taking over the thread.

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    MCU Thor is not shrugging of a planet buster or a planet explosion based off of established feats. There is no evidence he could survive that. He has been taken out of commission and damaged by far less.

    If you want to say he can survive a planet level explosion/planet buster, I'm going to need to see feats that are high end and consistent.

    Until such time, this ruling will stand.
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  10. #25
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Getting back to the thread proper, I'd say The Avengers would do best in Disney Wars Timeline.

    Not a lot of competence on display there.
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