Does Superman Have To Be the DCU's First Superhero To Be Inspiring?

[misslane]

Real life history trumps whatever soon-to-be-rewritten continuity says, but if you're going to make a change like that, I'd prefer that it actually presents an equally-interesting alternative story, and up to now I don't find it any more interesting if Superman were like the 19th hero to debut. I especially dislike it when it's stuff like STAS when they go out of their way to point out that Batman came first (and note that unlike in the upcoming DCCU, in the DCAU Batman was NOT an urban legend; Ma Kent in Smallville knew exactly who he was).

Since the Batman reference from Ma Kent in Superman: The Animated Series' "The Last Son of Krypton", has her referring to Batman as "that nut in Gotham City," the implication still is that Batman is known before Superman, but that his arrival on the public stage has not had a wholly positive or transformative effect. If regular folk in the heartland of America are skeptical of him, then that suggests that Batman's made a step but not enough of one. Superman, by contrast with Batman, has a stronger impact because of the magnitude of his powers but also because of his very open heroism; he wears no mask and does interviews with the press. As I've said before, I do find it more interesting for Superman to debut later and create a paradigm shift because of the way he is a hero and not because he was the first.

[DochaDocha]

What's wrong with being both the most charismatic and the first?

[Johnny Thunders!]

They should just make it official, have Superman be the first Robin, and call them "Bat Heroes with Bat Powers."

[vaf2675]

I've heard this said by people on this board who prefer a DCU where Clark debuts first because it makes his heroism more inspirational. Personally I'm not of the opinion that this is the case as I've found Clark plenty inspiring regardless of whether he's setting a trend or following it. So what do you guys think? Does Superman need to be the first to be the best. If yes or no, please state why.

Considering the way the New 52 Universe works (the whole 5 year continuity b.s.), I thought Batman would actually be the first, considering his history has remained basically the same, it would make sense if he had been operating longer than any of them.

[Sacred Knight]

He has been operating longer. During his beginning though he kept himself secret and unseen in the things he did. Superman was the first to publicly out himself not only as a costumed vigilante but also I'm pretty sure the first self-proclaimed alien on Earth.

So in a way Docha's actually right, DC did technically make them both the first in their own way.

[vaf2675]

He has been operating longer. During his beginning though he kept himself secret and unseen in the things he did. Superman was the first to publicly out himself not only as a costumed vigilante but also I'm pretty sure the first self-proclaimed alien on Earth.

So in a way Docha's actually right, DC did technically make them both the first in their own way.

Well he sure didn't seem all that secret and unseen in Zero Year. Could it be that the New 52 continuity is already starting to unravel? Maybe we need a new Crisis, a certain anniversary is coming up next year. LOL

[misslane]

What's wrong with being both the most charismatic and the first?

Nothing except that it kind of deprives one of seeing how Superman changes the way one understands his effect on other heroes and the public. If heroes come out of the woodwork because of him, then all he's inspiring is confidence that they can be public. We can't know if he actually makes them rethink their morals or shift public opinion in favor of vigilantes after a period of skepticism. It feels more satisfying and triumphant for a debut to cure a problem or ease a conflict, from my point of view, because one can point to Superman and say that he didn't just change things from nothing to something. Rather, he made them better. A good story, for me, has more conflict, more struggle, more of a journey, and more transformation.

For instance, I definitely preferred the way it was handled on Smallville because it gave a very real sense of why Superman was so exceptional. Other heroes had debuted publicly -- heroes with costumes, heroes that could fly -- but none of them really galvanized the public and superhero community like he did. Part of what made that work was showing Clark working through issues with his fellow vigilantes before their full reveal to the public. Another thing that made it work is it explored in depth just what it meant for Clark to choose to go public in terms of the scrutiny he'd receive and the sacrifices he'd have to make committing to a secret identity. For him and the audience to realize the magnitude of the decision he was making, and the role he was taking on, made his eventual step into the spotlight seem that much more heroic and momentous for him, for pre-existing heroes, and for the world.

[DochaDocha]

For instance, I definitely preferred the way it was handled on Smallville

Well that explains everything!

Just teasin'.

[JackDaw]

There needs...I think...some in-story reason why other characters in DC universe would logically regard Superman as first among equals.

If he's not first on the scene it weakens that aspect of the character. Then if you go along with the reasoning often used that other heroes must be better than Superman at their "specialities " (eg. Batman must be smarter, Flash much faster, Wonder Woman a better warrior, GL more versatile)...you end up with Superman just being a good all rounder. You wonder if the other DC heroes really would regard him as special.

Put it this way...if a youngster started reading comics in last 15 years...and based his assessment of characters based on just what happened in comics themselves, I think few youngsters would regard Superman as the main natural leader. DC ought to make sure that doesn't happen, and making Superman first on the scene helps a bit with that.

[Johnny Thunders!]

There needs...I think...some in-story reason why other characters in DC universe would logically regard Superman as first among equals.

If he's not first on the scene it weakens that aspect of the character. Then if you go along with the reasoning often used that other heroes must be better than Superman at their "specialities " (eg. Batman must be smarter, Flash much faster, Wonder Woman a better warrior, GL more versatile)...you end up with Superman just being a good all rounder. You wonder if the other DC heroes really would regard him as special.

Put it this way...if a youngster started reading comics in last 15 years...and based his assessment of characters based on just what happened in comics themselves, I think few youngsters would regard Superman as the main natural leader.

I feel the same way. I do not understand why Superman had to have been toned down to make the rest of the DCU relevant. In the end, he is the most noble and selfless, but put Clark next to Barry Allen and even that seems silly. Since the 86 Crisis, the effort to make Superman less Super has been so mystifying. To me, it makes more sense that Superman ushers in the age of Superheroes. Just like he did.

[Francisco]

The only posible explanation is that they are not his equal. That he's the better and brightest of them all.

[Dabrikishaw]

Nah, there can be plenty of superheroes before him.

[Johnny Thunders!]

They should call him "Lt. Swell-ster" to stress how swell he is, I'd say Captain, but we don't want him to outrank Billy Batson.

[Cypher]

He has been operating longer. During his beginning though he kept himself secret and unseen in the things he did. Superman was the first to publicly out himself not only as a costumed vigilante but also I'm pretty sure the first self-proclaimed alien on Earth.

So in a way Docha's actually right, DC did technically make them both the first in their own way.

Technically if Batman has been operating longer before Superman, that doesnt make them both first.

[Francisco]

Technically if Batman has been operating longer before Superman, that doesnt make them both first.

But Batman is not a superhero