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  1. #1
    Boisterously Confused
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    Default Characters Who Outlived Their Point

    My answer would be Power Girl. It's not because she has to compete for a niche with Supergirl.

    If you go back to her first appearances, she was supposed to be a (then) modern take on feminine empowerment. She was a different kind of Supergirl, discontent to be her cousin's copy, and unafraid of getting in your face about it. Power Girl was intended to be less an E2 Supergirl than a Wonder Woman For Her Times.

    All that had faded away even before Crisis. I suppose is some ways that's appropriate, as her cousin didn't keep his original edge all that long either.

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    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I haven't read a lot of Jason Todd/Red Hood stuff beyond the original story, but it seems to me he's still floating around as one of "the family" and working with heroes who clearly wouldn't agree with his methods. That either compromises the hero or softens Jason, which defeats the purpose either way IMO. I don't think he should die necessarily but any stories involving him should emphasize the original point of his existence.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I agree about Power Girl and disagree about Jaybird, who I think has really had a renaissance for the last ten years or so.

    Hm, I guess I'd say most of Ditko's characters kind of did. Hawk and Dove had arguably outlived their point by like, their first issue. The Question and Creeper were both designed as exploratory tools for Ditko's philosophical / political views. After Ditko left the characters and they started being used by more mainstream DC writers, those views were not really critiqued and rejected so much as dismissed and chucked out the window, so... that's not great. And I don't often agree with those political views, either! I'm waaaaaaay to the left of Ditko, politically, I'm a social democrat, right? But disagreement doesn't justify erasure, except when Nazis are involved!

    I just think Steve freaking Ditko, arguably like the second most important comic creator of the 20th century after the Siegel / Shuster team, deserves more respect, and that the original forms of both Vic and Jack served to massively diversify the philosophical landscape of the comics rack just by their existence, which isn't really the case for Denny O'Neill's "Charlie" like it was for Steve Ditko's "Vic".
    Last edited by Adekis; 01-29-2020 at 10:55 AM.
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  4. #4
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I haven't read a lot of Jason Todd/Red Hood stuff beyond the original story, but it seems to me he's still floating around as one of "the family" and working with heroes who clearly wouldn't agree with his methods. That either compromises the hero or softens Jason, which defeats the purpose either way IMO. I don't think he should die necessarily but any stories involving him should emphasize the original point of his existence.
    This one I agree with.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I haven't read a lot of Jason Todd/Red Hood stuff beyond the original story, but it seems to me he's still floating around as one of "the family" and working with heroes who clearly wouldn't agree with his methods. That either compromises the hero or softens Jason, which defeats the purpose either way IMO. I don't think he should die necessarily but any stories involving him should emphasize the original point of his existence.
    You don't say? That right there, yeah, you should stop. Over the last decade, along with a BARE few pre-Flashpoint stories (Countdown to Crisis), Jason has really come into his own.

    What's more, the current run of Red Hood and the Outlaws, ever since Rebirth, has been one of the best the last few years. Jason, along with Artemis Grace of the Bana-Mighdall Amazons and clone Bizarro, have formed the "Dark Trinity" and make quite the team. Plus previous stories, where Jason finally calms down from the Lazarus Pit madness...

    Yeah. You're missing a LOT on the character.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    I don't know if they've lost the point, but there are characters that are clearly reflective of the times they were created in that have some difficulty seamlessly transitioning into the modern day, such as Superman and Hal Jordan.

    It's interesting that in Green Lantern comics Hal Jordan never seems to work his test pilot job anymore, and it has fundamentally changed the character to the point that his life on Earth and his supporting cast--like Tom--have become beyond negligible. That could have something to do with that job not being as glamorous as it was in the 60s, as drones become more prevalent as time goes on. And basically no one reads newspapers except for senior citizens. That's not to disregard senior citizens, but those papers are clearly on their way out and have been for a while. I know the Daily Planet is such an integral part of Superman, but DC should put serious consideration into updating his work situation, otherwise the characters relevance could fall even further.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I don't know if they've lost the point, but there are characters that are clearly reflective of the times they were created in that have some difficulty seamlessly transitioning into the modern day, such as Superman and Hal Jordan.

    It's interesting that in Green Lantern comics Hal Jordan never seems to work his test pilot job anymore, and it has fundamentally changed the character to the point that his life on Earth and his supporting cast--like Tom--have become beyond negligible. That could have something to do with that job not being as glamorous as it was in the 60s, as drones become more prevalent as time goes on. And basically no one reads newspapers except for senior citizens. That's not to disregard senior citizens, but those papers are clearly on their way out and have been for a while. I know the Daily Planet is such an integral part of Superman, but DC should put serious consideration into updating his work situation, otherwise the characters relevance could fall even further.
    They tried to make Clark into a news anchor during the Bronze Age, and that had some real staying power. Lasted all the way up until the reboot, and if the Chris Reeve movie had followed suit instead of miring itself in nostalgia, that probably would have stuck around post-Crisis too.

    New 52 also flirted with Clark working for a news website, which I thought was an inherently good idea, even if the website being "ClarkCatropolis dot com" was, er, let's say "sub-optimal".

    Still, I think that the basic premise of Clark as a journalist, as someone who investigates injustice and informs the public at large about it, is more relevant than ever. It's just, er, the newspaper that's approaching its expiration date. But I think this one can be changed without too many growing pains, as long as too many "make Superman great again" fans don't start yelling over it next time DC tries to change CK's work situation up.

    As for Hal Jordan, I'll be honest, I reread "Final Night" yesterday and to be honest, I love that story so much. I kind of think Hal should have stayed dead after it concluded.
    Last edited by Adekis; 01-29-2020 at 12:44 PM.
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  8. #8
    Mighty Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    I don’t mind Power Girl. She’s the outsider in the Superman Family. A lot of readers can identify w. that position.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    My answer would be Power Girl. It's not because she has to compete for a niche with Supergirl.

    If you go back to her first appearances, she was supposed to be a (then) modern take on feminine empowerment. She was a different kind of Supergirl, discontent to be her cousin's copy, and unafraid of getting in your face about it. Power Girl was intended to be less an E2 Supergirl than a Wonder Woman For Her Times.
    If anything, this sounds like she is more relevant now.

  10. #10
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    None have.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Doomsday



    If anything, this sounds like she is more relevant now.
    ^^^agreed.

    Honestly I can’t really think of characters that have “outlived their point” (as opposed to characters I don’t like).
    Even dated characters can serve a purpose in the hands of the right creative team.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Any character created to fight in WW2 and moved up into the modern day. So maybe Uncle Sam. PG comes in a close second. How do you sell a Supergirl from an alternate Earth to the general public without it sounding confusing? That has more to do with not being able to find a niche for her after COIE more than the character herself. They managed to find a good use for Huntress after COIE. I would say the multiple Green Lanterns. Earth only really needs one.
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  13. #13
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    This seems to be more of a 'there are no bad ideas just bad bad writers' situation. Some characters are just *there* because they haven't found the right writers to make them work.

  14. #14
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    You don't say? That right there, yeah, you should stop. Over the last decade, along with a BARE few pre-Flashpoint stories (Countdown to Crisis), Jason has really come into his own.

    What's more, the current run of Red Hood and the Outlaws, ever since Rebirth, has been one of the best the last few years. Jason, along with Artemis Grace of the Bana-Mighdall Amazons and clone Bizarro, have formed the "Dark Trinity" and make quite the team. Plus previous stories, where Jason finally calms down from the Lazarus Pit madness...

    Yeah. You're missing a LOT on the character.
    Agreed.
    Jason had some great development, especially since Rebirth and the introduction of the "Dark Trinity".
    Jason, Artemis and Bizarro are incredible. It's awesome to follow their - especially Jason's - journey.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    This seems to be more of a 'there are no bad ideas just bad bad writers' situation. Some characters are just *there* because they haven't found the right writers to make them work.
    I agree.
    And sometimes they're just paired with the wrong writer.
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