Characters Who Outlived Their Point

[docmidnite]

The Rocket Reds, Red Star, Red Son, KGBeast etc. don't make much sense in 2020 when the Soviet Union fell apart thirty years ago

I disagree with KGBeast. All they have to do is make him an ex-KGB agent turned Russian Mob Boss and international arms dealer who smuggles all of Gotham's criminals their weaponry and someone that Batman has to deal with, not only in Gotham, but internationally as well.

[nhienphan2808]

It’s weird because I always feel like DICK needed other Robins much more that Bruce ever did. He went through really big development with with them. Bill Finger really had Bruce already so developed and pragmatic that even Babs , the information mastermind, the “lawyer” type, the more socially inclined Batperson, was created just as consequential for a deliberate move to make him less mature or human in the Silver Age so that he needed her to be his assistant. And you got to write him worse to say he needed kids to watch over him, or even “contrast” him. Dick was always the contrast, and you got the rouge for that. It’s losing Dicks point to say he’s just “Batman lite.”

[j9ac9k]

I'm uncertain about Hal. I'll grant you that nobody's really know what to do with him since Green Lantern's Silver Age title had to bring Green Arrow aboard to keep it afloat. I will say that his career as a test pilot no longer carries the same cool factor it did in the early 1960s, but it's more a case that writers haven't been able to find anything beyond that for the character.

Hal represented the edge of human achievement, so he really just has to be shown to be at whereever that edge is. The problem is that the ring makes human achievement seem moot, so that's an issue. Thus he's usually shown being an achiever with the ring, pushing the limits out in space with the GLC. I'm not sure what the perfect solution would be in terms of giving Hal an earthbound job again, but even if he hasn't flown in a long time, it still defines him and tells an audience what he represents.

[kjn]

Batman. He was originally built on the fantasy of private enforcement of justice, that was rapidly disappearing in the 20s and 30s due to the integration of the West and the rise of professional government-funded police forces.

Superman. He was originally built not only on the fantasy of being super strong, but on being able to perfectly fit into (white) American society, while still not being a white American. You can still however find some depictions that dig into this theme, like the recent "Superman Smashes the Klan" or Wolfman's "Man and Superman".

Wonder Woman. She was originally a vehicle for teaching young boys that women were better suited to be leaders than men.

[DrNewGod]

...All the exotic character types Denny O’Neil put into Bronze Age Batman...Talia, Ras... All of them.

It seems to me that the point of the al Ghuls was not to be exotic as much as to provide Batman with a Professor Moriarity to Batman's Holmes, and complicate the matter with a love interest inextricably connected to the villain. IMO, the ethnicity of the al Ghuls was an element, not the whole of the characters.

[nhienphan2808]

Ah, but Denny O’Neil and I have very different opinions about who Batman really is. It’s not who they serve as that’s the point, it’s who they served. Batman as I view him don’t NEED immortal demons, ninjas or Peak Martial Artists to further his narrative, at least not now anymore. I mean they are interesting, but I always feel like one or two storylines are enough.

[docmidnite]

And Tim was also not that smart in the comics back then.

Tim has always been exceptionally smart. He figured out Batman and Nightwing's secret identities simply by watching TV as a young kid when he was introduced in A Lonely Place of Dying.

[Aahz]

The Rocket Reds, Red Star, Red Son, KGBeast etc. don't make much sense in 2020 when the Soviet Union fell apart thirty years ago

Nazis like Baron Blitzkrieg or Captain Nazi make imo even less sense.

I disagree with KGBeast. All they have to do is make him an ex-KGB agent turned Russian Mob Boss and international arms dealer who smuggles all of Gotham's criminals their weaponry and someone that Batman has to deal with, not only in Gotham, but internationally as well.

Thats kind of how they portrait him in live action, but that hasn't much to do with the comics.

And his age in the comics simply doesn't line up, to still have been in the KGB, he would have to be 50-60 years old now, and that seems not to be the case.

[Aahz]

Tim has always been exceptionally smart. He figured out Batman and Nightwing's secret identities simply by watching TV as a young kid when he was introduced in A Lonely Place of Dying.

But not on the level as it is portrait in current comics.

[Mr.B]

Batman. He was originally built on the fantasy of private enforcement of justice, that was rapidly disappearing in the 20s and 30s due to the integration of the West and the rise of professional government-funded police forces.

Superman. He was originally built not only on the fantasy of being super strong, but on being able to perfectly fit into (white) American society, while still not being a white American. You can still however find some depictions that dig into this theme, like the recent "Superman Smashes the Klan" or Wolfman's "Man and Superman".

Wonder Woman. She was originally a vehicle for teaching young boys that women were better suited to be leaders than men.

Trolling eh.

[docmidnite]

Thats kind of how they portrait him in live action, but that hasn't much to do with the comics.

I know. That's where I partially got the idea from.

And his age in the comics simply doesn't line up, to still have been in the KGB, he would have to be 50-60 years old now, and that seems not to be the case.

So? Just have the Soviet Union physically enhance him in his origin story so his strength doesn't deteriorate and he doesn't age like average humans.

[Vampire Savior]

Most normies want no Robin.

It's interesting that when we look at Batman's most successful films, Robin isn't really there. While I like Dick Grayson, and I liked when he was around in the first couple seasons of Batman: The Animated Series, I do think the concept of Robin as it pertains to Batman is somewhat silly. It can work, but what doesn't work is about 4 or 5 of them. At that point, Bruce Wayne just starts looking like a weird creep or something, and even though these are super hero comics, it's just not believable--even within that world--that these samey looking boys would keep appearing and Bruce Wayne would keep taking them in and putting them in tights. Unless there's something very strange about Bruce Wayne.

In short, the only Robin that works for me is Dick Grayson. I find the others redundant, superfluous, confusing, and contradictory (in regards to Bruce Wayne's age and the timeline).

[docmidnite]

But not on the level as it is portrait in current comics.

I haven't read a Batman comic in ages. I know after A Lonely Place of Dying Bruce put Tim in a private school for exceptional students that traveled around the world (because Bruce wasn't just going to give Tim the Robin mantle and made Tim earn it the hard way even though Tim played Robin behind Bruce's back overseas when he was fighting King Snake)

So what are they doing with Tim now, then?

[kjn]

Trolling eh.

No. But I think it's worth realising that just because a character has outlived their original purpose they can't be adapted to other functions or roles.

[CPSparkles]

"Don't worry dad, I haven't murdered anyone recently."

He belongs in prison.

What undermines both characters is taht Bruce is okay with a hero who wears his logo killing so long as it's outside Gotham and Jason is happy to have that leash on him