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  1. #526
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Well, ComicJunkie21, I didn't like it and judging by its underperformance at the box office I'm not alone. Sometimes if something isn't broken there is no need to "fix it" or reinvent the wheel when it still rolls just fine. But hey, if you like it, more power to you.
    Last edited by Celgress; 02-21-2020 at 07:54 PM.
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  2. #527
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicJunkie21 View Post
    The movie aligns with Harley's chaotic and disorganized personality which is what I think the director was going for. If you view the movie from the lens of it matching the lead character's personality, then you might have a different perspective on the quality, but it's also a matter of personal preference.

    I don't see why anyone uses the excuse of a movie not being like the source material these days. No movie has been like the source material over the last decade! The best way to view cbm movies is as an else world story, some parts of the story and/or character are similar to the comics and some aspects are completely different. It's fine if you don't like some changes and it's fine if you do however it's an unfair standard to put on some movies and not on others.

    Most people like the MCU films and none of the films are exactly like the comics otherwise it would be too predictable and boring additionally the characters personalities were even changed to make them more marketable and cohesive to the bigger storyline.

    Example, I like Tobey's Peter Parker more than Holland's. I don't think Holland's iteration is close to the comic portrayal at all but I don't dislike the films because of it, in fact because of how the MCU is tonally built I understand that Tobey's iteration wouldn't fit into it.
    Because compare to the changes they've made, the source material was more appealing to ppl.

    Ppl want to see Black Canary stick to her old looks, not race swap or even rip off Vixen's old costume. She was there for 70 years and was well received even outside the comic fans.
    Ppl want to see Cain as a mute strong assassin, not the meh in the movie.
    Ppl want to see a more compelling Huntress, while MEW was a fine cast.

    Ppl want to see Barbara Gordon as the center character of BoP, not Harley Quinn.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking; 02-21-2020 at 07:55 PM.

  3. #528
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    Because compare to the changes they've made, the source material was more appealing to ppl.

    Ppl want to see Black Canary stick to her old looks, not race swap or even rip off Vixen's old costume. She was there for 70 years and was well received even outside the comic fans.
    Ppl want to see Cain as a mute strong assassin, not the meh in the movie.
    Ppl want to see a more compelling Huntress, while MEW was a fine cast.

    Ppl want to see Barbara Gordon as the center character of BoP, not Harley Quinn.
    Speak for yourself. I had no issue with Canary race swap. Wish they would developed her character more

  4. #529
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Speak for yourself. I had no issue with Canary race swap. Wish they would developed her character more
    Sure, different ppl have different view, but the box office is there.

    You know why all of them were changed like this and undeveloped? Because Harley is the main character, which is a huge mistake when the title was called BoP.

  5. #530
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Let's put it this way.

    There are fans who doesn't like the changes so they didn't go to see it or give it bad reviews.

    Did any of these changes of the characters actually BRING more ppl to see it?

  6. #531
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Speak for yourself. I had no issue with Canary race swap. Wish they would developed her character more
    I had zero issues with the race swap too. What I did have an issue with (one of many) was Casandra Cain who was Cassie in name only, but I digress.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    Because compare to the changes they've made, the source material was more appealing to ppl.

    Ppl want to see Black Canary stick to her old looks, not race swap or even rip off Vixen's old costume. She was there for 70 years and was well received even outside the comic fans.
    Ppl want to see Cain as a mute strong assassin, not the meh in the movie.
    Ppl want to see a more compelling Huntress, while MEW was a fine cast.

    Ppl want to see Barbara Gordon as the center character of BoP, not Harley Quinn.

    Which source material? There are 30+ Birds of Prey trades with 12 different writers. So what version?

    Cassandra Cain's books did not hit shelves (if they actually did) until 2016 and that was only 4 of them. That new book with her and maybe this film is the first time MANY have seen her.



    Did any of these changes of the characters actually BRING more ppl to see it?
    Well until you can confirm the above-no one has to convince you that the changes did or did not bring in folks.

  8. #533
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Which source material? There are 30+ Birds of Prey trades with 12 different writers. So what version?
    The most famous ones, in most of the occasion their basic setting doesn't change. Even stuff like Black Canary stays white other than like 1 issue.

    Cassandra Cain's books did not hit shelves (if they actually did) until 2016 and that was only 4 of them. That new book with her and maybe this film is the first time MANY have seen her.
    And she still has fans, did the change bring more fans?

    Well until you can confirm the above-no one has to convince you that the changes did or did not bring in folks.
    The box office is there, ppl are not attracted by these characters, their wallet has spoken for them. Other than Robbie, none of these characters are gonna be a big deal in their career as well.

    And the most popular of them is Harley Quinn. The one that got the most faithful portrayal compare to others. WB even had to change the title to let more ppl go watch it.

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Mary Sue is shorthand for female lead, I think. If a Male lead has unearned abilities inherited from mysterious parentage it’s just hero’s journey, which is fine of course.
    Apart from Rey how many female leads get regularly called a Mary Sue?

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    Sure, different ppl have different view, but the box office is there.

    You know why all of them were changed like this and undeveloped? Because Harley is the main character, which is a huge mistake when the title was called BoP.
    Black Canary doesn't have the popularity to measure that, nobody knows who she is.

    Edit: Not that the casting should matter. It's not like being white defines Dinah and the actress was wonderful.

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    A Mary Sue is a fictional character who is so competent or perfect that this appears absurd even in the context of the fiction. Mary Sues are often an author's self-insertion or wish fulfillment.

    Did you even look at it? Carol is not a Sue overall, not that bad yet, but part of her plot is quite Sueish.

    Yeah Ares has his reason, and where did it show the Kree Empire's reason like Ares'? Their reason was briefly told but not expanded at all, after it was revealed, they were portrayed as pure villain. Especially Jude Law's character, there was no ex-team struggle between them at all as it should have been.
    Oh suddenly she is not a Sue overall? A little backpedaling? Sounded a lot harsher a few posts earlier.
    And yes I knew the definition and it does not mean what you are trying to say here. So I would say you need to read it again.

    "where did it show the Kree Empire's reason like Ares'? There reason was briefly told but not expanded at all, after it was revealed," Try to see the error here.

    And if you did not see there was no Ex-team struggle you should really watch the movie unbiased. but I think that would be impossible with your hate-on for the MCU or CM esp.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    I agree with both you and Mids on CM's power levels. Some speculated she was absorbing the stones in Endgame (she wasn't), which would have worked much better.
    The signs were there, but if it so they should have outright stated that this is part of her powerset like in the comics. If I did not know that I think I would not have seen stuff like this^^

  13. #538

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Cassandra Cain's books did not hit shelves (if they actually did) until 2016 and that was only 4 of them. That new book with her and maybe this film is the first time MANY have seen her.
    What are you talking about? She had a run as Batgirl in 2000 that lasted 70+ issues over 6 years. To this date it's the longest running Batgirl series. Just because they always use Barbara in other mediums doesn't mean Cassandra wasn't successful or have fans. That's like stating Tim Drake doesn't matter because they always use Dick or Damian as Robin outside of the comics.
    Last Read: Black Panther vol. 1: Who Is The Black Panther?
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  14. #539
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    The movie is sitting at $153.8M worldwide right now, I think we can officially call it a flop.

  15. #540
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trooper_thorn View Post
    The movie is sitting at $153.8M worldwide right now, I think we can officially call it a flop.
    A disappointment at the box office, sure.

    But if you call this a flop, I'm not sure what you'd call Doolittle.

    Also, this movie has been reasonably well-received by critics, and its tail is holding up reasonably well. Far better than movies like Suicide Squad (67% drop on its second weekend!) or Justice League (56% drop).

    I expect there will be lots of finger pointing and analysis over at WB. There is a lot of politically motivated FUD about the movie from misogynists and their enablers, but I think that the real failure was in the way the movie was marketed (and to me that includes the name of the movie).
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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