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  1. #136
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Here’s my reactions

    1. It was an absolute blast, it was so much fun and I love it. Everyone who hasn't should go see it right now. This movie knows exactly what it’s about and what it’s trying to be, and it is that thing the whole way through. It’s an amoral roller coaster ride of joyous violence and sociopathic humor and I am HERE for it. It’s everything I wanted Suicide Squad to be back in 2016, and that Suicide Squad utterly failed to deliver on.

    2. There’s gonna be Dinah Lance and Cass Cain fans out there who will be VERY MAD that the movie didn’t have their faves in it in a recognizable way compared to the comics. This is justifiable anger, but for me this distinction in no way detracts from the movie as it is for me, just as Eric Bana thinking his name is Bruce Krenzler doesn’t keep Hulk (2003) from being an absolute masterpiece, which it doesn’t. Hulk is a masterpiece, and Birds of Prey, similarly, slaps. It slaps my entire bod.

    3. Even though Cass bears almost no relation to her characterization from the comics (she’s really more of a gender-flipped Jason Todd) she is still amazing. Also, as I am a big Jason Todd fan, this is emphatically Not a Problem for me.

    4. Canary’s tangential relationship to herself from the comics is more of a Problem for me, but I have hope that IF this movie does well enough to get a sequel, more Canary will be definitively more in the comics’ vein.

    5. Huntress is amazing and hilarious. I found myself thinking “that’s Batman’s daughter alright,” although she literally is not. Montoya is pretty great too.

    6. Black Mask is an interesting character. The root of his evil is clearly a kind of rampant materialism in which he treats people like possessions he can control, where he gets violent any time he something he dislikes happens. There’s a kind of homoerotic tension to his relationship with his right hand man Victor Zsasz, but they’re both clearly sexually interested in women as well? But neither of them respect women, and Zsasz is possibly the only character Black Mask does respect.

    7. I didn't think the movie was particularly trying to sell any particular political or even feminist message beyond the basic assumed premise of "super-type women can kick some ungodly amounts of ass" which... yeah? And yet when I got home and searached for "Birds of Prey" on YouTube, it seems like the idiots are coming out of the woodwork with video titles like "Woke Didn't Work" and that kind of bullshit. This movie is absolutely not doing any kind of moral posturing, the main character is a bad person, the whole thing is gloriously amoral. It's not trying to be woke, and it isn't woke. And it succeeds at being what it's trying to be, which is fun and hilarious.
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  2. #137
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    As a non englisch/american person I don't understand the term "woke" or "woekness". I can translate it, but I didn't get the meaning. And I see it every so often these days.

    What does it mean that Birds of Prey is not trying to be woke?

  3. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post

    2. There’s gonna be Dinah Lance and Cass Cain fans out there who will be VERY MAD that the movie didn’t have their faves in it in a recognizable way compared to the comics. This is justifiable anger, but for me this distinction in no way detracts from the movie as it is for me, just as Eric Bana thinking his name is Bruce Krenzler doesn’t keep Hulk (2003) from being an absolute masterpiece, which it doesn’t. Hulk is a masterpiece, and Birds of Prey, similarly, slaps. It slaps my entire bod.


    4. Canary’s tangential relationship to herself from the comics is more of a Problem for me, but I have hope that IF this movie does well enough to get a sequel, more Canary will be definitively more in the comics’ vein.
    I thought Canary's characterization was pretty on point. Most of my problems with her were very superficial. I wish towards the third act we would have seen less of her with the bat, which was also heavily advertised and promoted as "her weapon" and I also wish that her outfits would have been more biker chick than 70's blaxploitation. Honestly, from a wardrobe perspective, Dinah was one afro away from being Foxy Cleopatra from the Austin Powers franchise.

  4. #139
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It's hard to figure what people want from their costumed crime dramas. To me BOPATFEOOHQ was successful where other DC movies have missed the mark, because it avoided those overly complicated plotlines and gives what you want in an action movie.
    I think you miss the mark there. One is that BOPATFEOOHQ was preceded by three successful movies. The other is that its plotline was rather complex, with lots of moving parts. As plots go, it was much more complex than Wonder Woman or Aquaman and I'd say on par with Justice League (but obviously executed much better).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It was a thrilling and fun action flick. I don't see how anyone can feel like it didn't deliver. The only flaws are external to the movie itself. One is calling the young girl "Cassandra Cain"--she isn't, so don't expect that. And the other is the title of the movie--it should be HARLEY QUINN: etc., because Margot Robbie carries the movie on her back on roller skates--and she's the big star that everyone will go to see. I get why they wanted to go with the long title--to mirror the style of the movie--but that's one of those ideas in the writers room that should have been nixed, when they realized it was mainly going to be about HQ and not so much about an actual team called "Birds of Prey."
    Looking back at it again, it didn't really feel like a superhero movie, and here I think the lack of non-fighting action scenes worked against it in two ways. First to diversify the action and thus make the individual action pieces more memorable, second to better establish the capabilities of the characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    2. There’s gonna be Dinah Lance and Cass Cain fans out there who will be VERY MAD that the movie didn’t have their faves in it in a recognizable way compared to the comics. This is justifiable anger, but for me this distinction in no way detracts from the movie as it is for me, just as Eric Bana thinking his name is Bruce Krenzler doesn’t keep Hulk (2003) from being an absolute masterpiece, which it doesn’t. Hulk is a masterpiece, and Birds of Prey, similarly, slaps. It slaps my entire bod.
    Dinah felt fine to me, and reminded me of how she was characterised in the 1996 "Black Canary & Oracle: Birds of Prey", and felt like a near-kin to how Gail Simone wrote Canary in her first Birds of Prey run. Cass I definitely give you. For now I just pretend it's another character who happens to bear that name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    6. Black Mask is an interesting character. The root of his evil is clearly a kind of rampant materialism in which he treats people like possessions he can control, where he gets violent any time he something he dislikes happens. There’s a kind of homoerotic tension to his relationship with his right hand man Victor Zsasz, but they’re both clearly sexually interested in women as well? But neither of them respect women, and Zsasz is possibly the only character Black Mask does respect.
    I think you put your finger on something interesting here. Just as this was a movie without male gaze, I think Black Mask was the result of a female gaze on a male villain (though I think one can draw some comparisons with Immortan Joe of Mad Max: Fury Road). Black Mask is fundamentally insecure and obsessed with status and "respect" (as in fear), and most people are only objects for him. It's a form of toxic masculinity that seems to be quite common in the modern western world.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #140
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    I don't know where I'd rank BIRDS OF PREY AND THE FANTABULOUS EMANCIPATION OF ONE HARLEY QUINN among the DC movies. It's certainly a lot better than what some reactions or the trailers had led me to expect. So I was surprised that it could walk, talk and chew gum at the same time. I also expected it to play out like JUSTICE LEAGUE, with scenes sewn together by different hands yet it all seemed to have a singular artistic vision.

    Among the DC movies some are more my cup of tea than others. My cup of tea is super-heroic hurray type movies like WONDER WOMAN, SHAZAM!, JUSTICE LEAGUE--and of those WW is the most satisfying. BVS, MOS and JOKER--as nihilistic morose movies are not my cup of tea--but JOKER is clearly the best at doing that. AQUAMAN, BOPATFEOOHQ, SUICIDE SQUAD are in the middle between those extremes and not quite my cup of tea, as action heavy bombastic romps--AQUAMAN is clearly the winner there, but my first viewing of it was not that great and I had to see it a second time to really get the full effect.
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  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    Box office opening is looking not that rosy for BOP. Could be more like a 33M opening weekend. https://deadline.com/2020/02/birds-o...ie-1202853768/

    Probably should have went for a PG-13 to get the teens and under crowd in.
    Kind of thought there was a possibility of opening week not doing to well. With valentines day being next week, I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage drop is minimal or maybe even an increase. It's a movie targeted at women and with no other films really out this will probably be the one people see for their date night.

  7. #142
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    As a non englisch/american person I don't understand the term "woke" or "woekness". I can translate it, but I didn't get the meaning. And I see it every so often these days.

    What does it mean that Birds of Prey is not trying to be woke?
    Woke is modern American slang for being socially aware. Usually it's used ironically as a derision of social awareness, but not always.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    You my friend should reduce your salt intake. so much salt

    Sadly the fact is until the one who should be the most bad ass of them all can go from sidekick to solo character that's so popular Jim Lee considers her a 4th pillar then whimpy side kick she shall remain. dC is a business after all. We all knew that cass was going to be nerfed and nerfed hard in this movie.

    I mean did you honestly think that cass was going to be the bad ass in a movie with 4 other character's who are also bad ass?

    There's only so many fight scene and each BOP had to be shown doing something. Harley as the star gets the Bulk, Then Canary and then the rest.
    All they had to do was change Cass' character to any of the non bad ass young women in the Bat-verse. Instead, they wanted to pretend to be woke.

    So yeah, I will be salty

  9. #144
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Genuine question:

    Is there a single positive male character in this movie?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Genuine question:

    Is there a single positive male character in this movie?
    No, not even Bruce but I wouldn't think too much of it as it was probably less to do with male bashing than it was depicting how ruthless and selfish people in Gotham are. As well as showcasing on how Harley wasn't fully aware on how evil the villains were while she was under the protection of Joker.
    Last edited by ComicJunkie21; 02-08-2020 at 07:33 AM.

  11. #146
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Genuine question:

    Is there a single positive male character in this movie?
    The guy who makes Harley's egg sandwich seemed OK. He even let Harley slide on the $0.75 she owed.

    Otherwise, no, can't think of any.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    The guy who makes Harley's egg sandwich seemed OK. He even let Harley slide on the $0.75 she owed.

    Otherwise, no, can't think of any.
    Nah, he was serving expired cheese to his customers. In my book he was the most wicked of everyone because of that.

  13. #148

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    If we're keeping things in context, there wasn't exactly positive female role models either. Cassie is a thief. Harley and Huntress straight up murder people. Montoya drinks her problems away. The only one shown in a somewhat consistently positive way is Black Canary.

    That's why I don't get the whole "It portrays all men as terrible!" argument because it treats everyone as terrible.
    Last Read: Zatanna and the House of Secrets
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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Genuine question:

    Is there a single positive male character in this movie?
    For the record, not with him

  15. #150
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    All they had to do was change Cass' character to any of the non bad ass young women in the Bat-verse. Instead, they wanted to pretend to be woke.

    So yeah, I will be salty
    You are correct. It's blatantly obvious that Cass was shown because they wanted to exploit her multiple diversity quotas tally.

    Sex, Disability, Race. She ticks them all. It was a deliberate cheap and callous ploy. This is worse than exclusion because it means that they know people are looking for media that represents them positively but they only do it just enough to get the butts on the seats and then do jack about the postie part. They don't even attempt at keeping it accurate.

    That's how little they care.

    This movie was okay. It wasn't about empowerment and it was fair in it's representation of both sexes. Neither was positive
    Last edited by Fergus; 02-08-2020 at 08:57 AM.

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