"I rhyme with tyre - And cause pollution - I think you'll find - It's the best solution: What Am I?"
"And that's the essential problem with 'Planetary' right there. When Elijah Snow says, 'The world is a strange place'... he gets Dracula, Doc Savage and Godzilla... When we say it, we get The Captain Fire-Cock Rock 'n' Roll Spectacular."
~ Pól Rua
I agree about low to mid budget movies not bothering with China. But alot of MCU movies and movies like Venom or Aquaman are making a killing in China. And Venom didnt use China as a marketing gimmick. It came out in China a month after the U.S. yes they only get 25% but that a quarter of 250+m for a movie like Venom. They only get 40% from alot of other international territories where they make way less money. China isnt a Gimmick, it's an important part of the market for Mega budget films. But yea BOP did fine internationally without china. Its here in America where it really disappointed. JW3,Shazam all did 50m+ opening weekend. Sonic is looking at 55m+. If BOP would have made the 50m it was projected to make at one point, none of this flop talk would be happening. But again I'm fine with people saying disappointment or underperforming. But this movie isnt a flop. Dolittle was a flop.
Last edited by Midvillian1322; 02-14-2020 at 10:59 PM.
Yes its underperforming but re the underlined your not correct. It didn't SERIOUSLY underperform the projections of the studio. Their projections were always below those of media press. They had projected a 40-45m domestic opening. Not the 55m that others in the market had. I wouldnt call 16.25 -25% below expectation a "serious" shortfall. The almost 40% off the overal projection of the press which was based on the Joker opening is a serious shortfall yes.
The movie was projected at 45 by the studios conservative estimates. Which are almost always under the actual opening weekend for most movies in the genre the studios predict low so they claim even more sucess when it overperforms. Anyway It only made 33(I'm rounding things off).Take another 10m off that we would be flirting with Flop territory. Also not alot of Comicbook movies underperform. Anyway enough with the semantics.
I suspect that time hasn't been kind to Suicide Squad and people held that against this movie.
Wonder if James Gunn SS is a big hit acorss the board and then they released BOP after that how much better it would have done.
If that's the case then the Suicide Squad looks to be at risk of doing bad. Although comic book movie fans know what caused the movie quality to be bad and the fact that they have hopefully fixed the problems, the general audience member doesn't and may just see a sequel to a bad movie and assume that its similar to the first.
I doubt that will happen. For all that BoPatEoOHQ has been underperforming, it hasn't been badly received. People who have gone to see it have generally liked it. And WB will have other movies in between this one and Gunn's The Suicide Squad.
What is changing however is that there is a really active group of misogynist people who have made it into their thing to be anti-fans and push back against everything they dislike. That's something that movie studios (and other marketing people) haven't had to deal much with before. Having a bunch of poorly-received movies (BvS, SS, JL) they can deal with. Marvel can ignore them since Captain Marvel was a clear success, despite all the complaints from misogynists. But WB will need a way to deal with them.
In this situation, I think the right move might be to simply ignore them, and push more creative and marketing of WW84 and TSS. I'd also look at doing a teamup between Black Canary and Wonder Woman in Wonder Woman 3, as a clear finger to the misogynists.
I think the title was the core problem here. If it had been called Harley Quinn: #MeToo then it'd have been a declaration of war against the misogynists, but they'd froth anyway. But WB would have had allies to get their initial marketing going, and would have claimed their ground from day one.
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])
They did it incorrectly and didn't take into account the fact that studios don't get 100% of the BO.
The article had the production budget at $97.1M meaning that $194.2M would be the break even point if you assume that marketing is equivalent to production, however that $194.2M refers to the amount they need after the various theaters get their cut (which as I said varies across markets).
Here, let me illustrate what I'm talking about: If the production budget of film X is $50M and we assume an equivalent level of marketing then film X would have to make $100M to break even. However if the studio only gets a 50% cut of the worldwide box office then you are looking at having to earn $200M to break even.
They did do the calculation correctly but what isn't in the article is the marketing budget. Without the marketing budget the calculation is only taking into account 50% of BO revenue. The marketing budget for this film may not be very significant as its assumed to not be a lot based on what we've seen. You are correct that normally the marketing budget equals or even exceedes the production budget therefore doubling the costs and requiring a film to earn 2.5x to 3x its budget to break even. Most cbm films are like this, however I think we are seeing studios experiment with lower overall budgets to see what happens to reduce risk by requiring a film to earn 2x its budget instead and providing a bigger return.
BoP original budget was stated to be 75 million but it jumped to 97.1 and with tax breaks is expected to come down between 82 and 84. Marketing for the film is estimated to be low I would estimate around 20 million (if that) based on Jokers marketing budget.
Last edited by ComicJunkie21; 02-15-2020 at 07:38 AM.
Oh I'm willing to accept the theory that they skimped on marketing, I've mentioned that possibility a few times in my prior posts (I saw almost no advertising myself). That's why I prefer to give estimated ranges rather than exact amounts. Frankly the best way to tell how a film did is to watch the actions of the studio once the film is out of theaters (assuming it's not a massive bomb).
Anyhow, I don't expect this movie to flop but we are probably looking at break even.
Agree, the actions of the studio will tell us a lot. Right now wb doesn't seem worried. At first with the name change it seems like they were panicking but reports are coming out that it was actually the theaters who did the change. I think many of us forget how much a film's success or failure impacts the theaters. With February being considered the kiss of death for new releases, its probably a tough month for theater chains as well so they do their best to try to get people in the seats.
Frankly I think wb is more worried about quality over quantity right now, which they should be. If BoP had big numbers but was universally hated like SS they would be panicking but with the film leaving a good impression on those who saw it, they seem content with the outcome.
I think YoungRippa and Mr H Reviews (youtubers) have the best breakdowns of why this film failed.
I personally did not like the film, thought it was one of the worst CBMs ever made, thought it looked terrible in the trailers and believed it was destined to fail. I do wonder why WB could not see this.... (that they had a flop on their hands)... The film seems to think Margot Robbie's HQ is much more compelling than she actually is, feels like the studio's attempt at something akin to Deadpool except every element falls flat- story (incoherent) fight scenes- (unrealistic and meh) character development- (non existent) protagonist- (unlikable immature a-hole). The biggest problem for me was the political agenda behind the film- all men bad / Ewan's comments about misogamy in the promo campaign... Kinda gave it the kiss of death. What do you get if you make a woke man hating CBM? As Joker would say- You get what you f****ng deserve!
MY POWERS HAVE RETURNED TO ME!! I HAVEN'T LOST THEM!! I'M STILL SPIDER-MAN!
Planning on seeing this movie by myself this Monday (Presidents' Day) for the earliest local matinee showing.
Will let y'all know what I think after paying money to watch it.
Is there an after-credits stinger?
1. It's hardly "failed." It's been in theaters for just over a week and has already made back its budget.
2. Given that Mr. H is a known hate-grifter and both of the people you mentioned unironically use "SJW" as a pejorative... yeah, those are hardly good sources for unbiased info.
Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
Fan of: Batman, Cassandra Cain, Wonder Woman, Silk, Stephanie Brown, Captain America, Hellcat, Renee Montoya, Gotham Central, King Shark
Quasi-Fan of: Aquaman, Midnighter, Superman, Catwoman, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Squadron Supreme, Red Hood
Other likes: Low, Hush, Arkham Asylum: ASHoSE, Watchmen, A-Force, Bombshells, Grayson, Unfollow
Team Cap (both Rogers and Danvers)
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])