Birds of Prey Reactions

[Username taken]

Nearly no male characters are good, all of them are shallow negative images and the cause of the female character's misfortune.

Of course it has, wokeness pretty much demonize the opposite group into either useless comic relief or bad guys.

You keep describing discrimination but you’re referring to it as wokeness. It’s like saying the “sunken place” is racist which doesn’t doesn’t make any sense because the people that originated it never meant it like that.

The way some white people have re-interpreted the wokeness term is odd to see the least.

But as per the movie, i haven’t seen the movie but isn’t that true to the comics (to an extent) that a lot of these characters misfortunes did come from men?

[Username taken]

I've seen complaints that all the men in the film were D-Bags. But these complaints also come from the type of people who complained because Harley the protagonist blew up Ace Chemicals hence probably poisoning hundreds if not thousands of Gothamites and thus she's really is an awful character. They conveniently ignore that in 1989 Batman blew up Axis Chemicals but that was ok.

Exactly.

I’m quite sure that scene was actually an homage to the ‘89 movie.

[lowfyr]

I've seen complaints that all the men in the film were D-Bags. But these complaints also come from the type of people who complained because Harley the protagonist blew up Ace Chemicals hence probably poisoning hundreds if not thousands of Gothamites and thus she's really is an awful character. They conveniently ignore that in 1989 Batman blew up Axis Chemicals but that was ok.

But that was a totally different Thing, because Batman did it .

I mean if Batman fights dozens of enemies and has no Problem finishing them it is totally ok. Harley or Batwoman doing the same would get endless discussions About it being unrealistic. I call that the John/Jane Wick paradox.

[lowfyr]

It is the major factor, it's not a terrible movie like Catwoman but a bad one. I have explained the reason.

"Captain Marvel is different, the logo is shown in the end of Infinity War as Nick Fury's last resort. Ppl want to see who that is and how is she going to change the tide. The news also showed Captain Marvel in the Endgame scenes, showing she was going to have a big impact. These all caused the movie to become a hit."


Sure sounded different in your comment i answered to. moving the goalposts as usual.
And as usual your reason is just your opinion. Again it may surprise you but your opinion is not the opinion of the public.

[Slowpokeking]

You keep describing discrimination but you’re referring to it as wokeness. It’s like saying the “sunken place” is racist which doesn’t doesn’t make any sense because the people that originated it never meant it like that.

The way some white people have re-interpreted the wokeness term is odd to see the least.

But as per the movie, i haven’t seen the movie but isn’t that true to the comics (to an extent) that a lot of these characters misfortunes did come from men?

White ppl are not all evil dude, every group has good and bad ppl.

[Slowpokeking]

"Captain Marvel is different, the logo is shown in the end of Infinity War as Nick Fury's last resort. Ppl want to see who that is and how is she going to change the tide. The news also showed Captain Marvel in the Endgame scenes, showing she was going to have a big impact. These all caused the movie to become a hit."


Sure sounded different in your comment i answered to. moving the goalposts as usual.
And as usual your reason is just your opinion. Again it may surprise you but your opinion is not the opinion of the public.

It's a major factor for it making 1b money, if the quality is even lower it might not hit that big but will still be a hit.

[Username taken]

White ppl are not all evil dude, every group has good and bad ppl.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I never said anything about white people being good or bad.

But im just thinking that if the movie showed the villains as being guys, that's not too far from the comics (that being said, they could have used female villains but that's a different discussion i guess).

[Slowpokeking]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I never said anything about white people being good or bad.

But im just thinking that if the movie showed the villains as being guys, that's not too far from the comics (that being said, they could have used female villains but that's a different discussion i guess).

It's not about villains are all men. Nearly all the male characters are shallow, bad characters. All the women's misfortune were caused by them. It's pretty much demonizing the whole group.

[Frobisher]

It's not about villains are all men. Nearly all the male characters are shallow, bad characters. All the women's misfortune were caused by them. It's pretty much demonizing the whole group.

I’m not sure that word means what you think it does.

[kjn]

But that was a totally different Thing, because Batman did it .

I mean if Batman fights dozens of enemies and has no Problem finishing them it is totally ok. Harley or Batwoman doing the same would get endless discussions About it being unrealistic. I call that the John/Jane Wick paradox.

Sadly true.

I think one issue that many superhero comics fans have with characters like modern Harley Quinn or Poison Ivy is that they have been conditioned to a simplistic black-and-white morality where actions of the heroes are always good, because the heroes are good, and actions of the villains are always bad, because the villains are bad.

There is no room for grays, or for interrogating the morality of a specific action. That also makes it hard to handle critique of the heroes, or showing them in a less flattering light.

ETA: Birds of Prey most explicitly exists in that gray zone. Harley Quinn isn't a nice person. She is violent and largely immoral, but she still has some values that she believes in, and it causes her to act heroically near the end (and then get away from her "teammates" at first opportunity). Black Canary works for a mobster, and would very much prefer to not get involved with any "heroics". Renee Montoya is stuck in a system where she cannot do good, and is arguably the most heroic character in her goals, but she isn't above doing blackmail.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sadly true.

I think one issue that many superhero comics fans have with characters like modern Harley Quinn or Poison Ivy is that they have been conditioned to a simplistic black-and-white morality where actions of the heroes are always good, because the heroes are good, and actions of the villains are always bad, because the villains are bad.

There is no room for grays, or for interrogating the morality of a specific action. That also makes it hard to handle critique of the heroes, or showing them in a less flattering light.

ETA: Birds of Prey most explicitly exists in that gray zone. Harley Quinn isn't a nice person. She is violent and largely immoral, but she still has some values that she believes in, and it causes her to act heroically near the end (and then get away from her "teammates" at first opportunity). Black Canary works for a mobster, and would very much prefer to not get involved with any "heroics". Renee Montoya is stuck in a system where she cannot do good, and is arguably the most heroic character in her goals, but she isn't above doing blackmail.

Speaking as someone who loves the gray, all the same, gray does not automatically interesting make.

Or rather, being sympathetic and human for 5% of your screen time in a cliche manner does not make up for the other 95% of being unsympathetic or self interested. Especially when it leads to a cliche.

[skyvolt2000]

Who did this movie demonize? I hope this isn’t some men’s rights stuff....those guys sound fragile AF.

So this one movie made all white men look bad and it needs to be attack and trashed nonstop.

Where oh where were all these guys when LIFETIME demonizes white men in the Lifetime movie of the week?

Now how many movies with WHITE GUYS as the lead demonized WOMEN & POC & people from other countries?

Movies of the 1980? Russia, Korea, China, Iran & Vietnam have a bone to pick with the USA.





As for gray area-where are the complaint for Frank Castle??? Deathstroke? Magneto? Spike from Buffy? Yet Harley is the issue.

[Slowpokeking]

So this one movie made all white men look bad and it needs to be attack and trashed nonstop.

Where oh where were all these guys when LIFETIME demonizes white men in the Lifetime movie of the week?

Now how many movies with WHITE GUYS as the lead demonized WOMEN & POC & people from other countries?

Movies of the 1980? Russia, Korea, China, Iran & Vietnam have a bone to pick with the USA.


As for gray area-where are the complaint for Frank Castle??? Deathstroke? Magneto? Spike from Buffy? Yet Harley is the issue.

Demonize any groups is bad. It doesn't matter who do you demonize.

Are all the white men bad? Can you tell me?

Not many ppl would attack it if its supporter or crew didn't bring it up first. It didn't get that much fire like many many other movies and its crew. Most of the viciously attacked movie stars are white men, dude.

[Slowpokeking]

I feel funny that ppl think this movie got badly attacked. I've seen most of the critics are being very soft on it, some of the ppl even got personally attacked when they dislike it.

There are countless movies that got thrashed much worse and longer, most of them are focusing on men.

[Agent Z]

You need to see more movies, then

"the way it was shown out-of-order" Deadpool says hi, and that he did it first, on a smaller budget .

"way it was ready to show its characters at their worst" 50% of comedy movies say hi. To one degree or another, Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy say hi as well.

"(unreliable) narrative voiceover" Deadpool sorta says hi

"the all-female cast" This, I'll grant you

The problem with BoP is that it wanted to tread the line between action movie and super hero movie. As a result, their tropes became cliche (Kid Mcguffin, burned out cops) that, again, we have seen before.

You say this as if superheroes themselves don't run on tropes we haven't seen before. Or do you think that alien invasions, monarchs from fictional realms and secret cabals are new ideas? There's a reason superhero origin stories are frequently accused of all being the same.