Why is Attilan accepted but Krakoa is not?

[Otto Gruenwald]

This thread isn't even about it's actual topic any more.

When you think about it, Inhumans being forgotten in this thread in favor of mutants is appropriate metaphor for all Inhumans vs X-men topics.

[Otto Gruenwald]

I don't know why people are making such a big deal about sentinels. They weren't the first AI in 616. You got Jim Hammond running around before color television.

Just copy+paste his brain patterns into sentinels and befriend the resulting race of robots. It worked for Vision. I don't know if its intentional on Hickman's part but Krakoa treats AI just as bad if not worse than how flatscans treat them. To X-men AI is just a big, dangerous, inevitable X-factor that's going to kill them all...and then they complain that humans see them the same way.

Jim Hammond never cut a deal with Ultron though. I got significantly more faith in a world dominated by robots than I do one dominated by mutants.

[Huntsman Spider]

I don't know why people are making such a big deal about sentinels. They weren't the first AI in 616. You got Jim Hammond running around before color television.

Just copy+paste his brain patterns into sentinels and befriend the resulting race of robots. It worked for Vision. I don't know if its intentional on Hickman's part but Krakoa treats AI just as bad if not worse than how flatscans treat them. To X-men AI is just a big, dangerous, inevitable X-factor that's going to kill them all...and then they complain that humans see them the same way.

Jim Hammond never cut a deal with Ultron though. I got significantly more faith in a world dominated by robots than I do one dominated by mutants.

Funny enough, there's an AI rebellion/Robot Revolution happening right now in Dan Slott's Iron Man comics, against humanity at large for constantly mistreating and exploiting them, which would throw a wrench into the idea of AI and humans merging in some kind of transhumanist symbiosis to repel mutants as foretold by Powers of X. Then again, since that was supposed to take place in a fairly distant future, maybe the AI and humanity eventually do come to an accord of sorts. That said, to inject a little real-world context, the problem with artificial intelligence is that it's been found in many cases to replicate the biases of whoever's doing the coding and programming for it, so imagine what that means within the Marvel Universe.

[Snoop Dogg]

We've finally found Moira's great mistake. Not spending a life recruiting based Machine Man.

[Zelena]

Funny enough, there's an AI rebellion/Robot Revolution happening right now in Dan Slott's Iron Man comics, against humanity at large for constantly mistreating and exploiting them, which would throw a wrench into the idea of AI and humans merging in some kind of transhumanist symbiosis to repel mutants as foretold by Powers of X. Then again, since that was supposed to take place in a fairly distant future, maybe the AI and humanity eventually do come to an accord of sorts. That said, to inject a little real-world context, the problem with artificial intelligence is that it's been found in many cases to replicate the biases of whoever's doing the coding and programming for it, so imagine what that means within the Marvel Universe.

What is interesting with AI is that it challenges the concept of humanity, like Danger that was ending to be considered like an X-men pre-Hickman. X-men then meant something wider, bigger before.

With Hickman's mutants, the world is divided in mutants/non-mutants and it is not about the behaviour, the intelligence or the capacity to feel but the DNA. I find this petty.

Modern societies have minorities, Krakoa has none. It's rather poor socially.

[Metal Sphere]

What is interesting with AI is that it challenges the concept of humanity, like Danger that was ending to be considered like an X-men pre-Hickman. X-men then meant something wider, bigger before.

With Hickman's mutants, the world is divided in mutants/non-mutants and it is not about the behaviour, the intelligence or the capacity to feel but the DNA. I find this petty.

Modern societies have minorities, Krakoa has none. It's rather poor socially.

Well, Krakoa was explicitly established to ensure the survival of the mutant species. Its efforts are focus on eliminating current threats to mutantdom, but also kneecapping human economic, political, social, technological, biological, and magical progress (or innovation and advancement as a whole, in short) in order for mutants to overrun the complacent and weakened humans.

It's very focused, and I do think what you brought up may be touched upon in the future.

[Tycon]

Modern societies have minorities, Krakoa has none. It's rather poor socially.

Why would having a minority status be a good thing?

[Otto Gruenwald]

Funny enough, there's an AI rebellion/Robot Revolution happening right now in Dan Slott's Iron Man comics, against humanity at large for constantly mistreating and exploiting them, which would throw a wrench into the idea of AI and humans merging in some kind of transhumanist symbiosis to repel mutants as foretold by Powers of X. Then again, since that was supposed to take place in a fairly distant future, maybe the AI and humanity eventually do come to an accord of sorts. That said, to inject a little real-world context, the problem with artificial intelligence is that it's been found in many cases to replicate the biases of whoever's doing the coding and programming for it, so imagine what that means within the Marvel Universe.

Well the reason Ultron is so screwed up is because Pym used his own brain patterns, so there's truth to that.

Still, AI have way,way, way more claim to being mistreated than any other race in Marvel. Jim Hammond's origin story is getting shoved into a concrete box by his father. Machine Man had to fight the US military for his humanity. Sentinels are slaughtered wholesale by the X-men even when its been shown they're sapient. Even the evil AI like Ultron have the excuse that they were built wrong.

This unit is apprehensive of the darkness.jpg

...By the way, did everyone just forget about this guy here: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/3.14159_(Earth-1191)

Sentinel develops compassion and feelings for mutants and shuts himself and his brethren down. There's a colony of sentinels in Australia sleeping for 2,000 years until their leader programs the mutant hatred out of them. You'd think in all her lifetimes Moira would have tried something with that. But then again, Hickman's Moira is pretty stupid.

[king of hybrids]

The sad thing is that, before Ike had the moronic idea to put the Inhumans against the mutants in a fight not even their own fans wanted to fight or win, there was a time where Attilan (and they other Inhuman colonies) would probably have been a natural ally of Krakoa.

I’d have liked Krakoa, Attilan, Olympia, Wundagore, Asgardia, Atlantis, Lemuria and the Core working together re baselines

[Zelena]

Why would having a minority status be a good thing?

Not a minority status, a minority reality. Therefore the people of the nation has a wider definition and isn't based on race, but principles.

The definition of people of Krakoa encourages narrow-mindedness.

[Zelena]

Well, Krakoa was explicitly established to ensure the survival of the mutant species. Its efforts are focus on eliminating current threats to mutantdom, but also kneecapping human economic, political, social, technological, biological, and magical progress (or innovation and advancement as a whole, in short) in order for mutants to overrun the complacent and weakened humans.

It's very focused, and I do think what you brought up may be touched upon in the future.

I suppose that is OP's answer.

[Starfish]

What is interesting with AI is that it challenges the concept of humanity, like Danger that was ending to be considered like an X-men pre-Hickman. X-men then meant something wider, bigger before.

With Hickman's mutants, the world is divided in mutants/non-mutants and it is not about the behaviour, the intelligence or the capacity to feel but the DNA. I find this petty.

Modern societies have minorities, Krakoa has none. It's rather poor socially.

What makes the X-Men's bio-essentialism so jarring (to me, anyway) is that Hickman introduced a lot of elements from transhumanist sci-fi, yet has his protagonists take a stance that would be considered reactionary by many transhumanists, who tend to be more inclined to view a mind as a mind, regardless of its origin or the physical packaging it comes in. Right now Krakoa mostly reminds me of the Jovians from the Eclipse Phase setting: isolationist bioconservatives terrified of any AI and "unnatural" enhancements, with a foreign policy similar to that of the present day US.

[Tycon]

What makes the X-Men's bio-essentialism so jarring (to me, anyway) is that Hickman introduced a lot of elements from transhumanist sci-fi, yet has his protagonists take a stance that would be considered reactionary by many transhumanists, who tend to be more inclined to view a mind as a mind, regardless of its origin or the physical packaging it comes in. Right now Krakoa mostly reminds me of the Jovians from the Eclipse Phase setting: isolationist bioconservatives terrified of any AI and "unnatural" enhancements, with a foreign policy similar to that of the present day US.

There’s also the fact that those “AI” and “unnatural enhancements” have dedicated their very being to wiping out mutants. Just a little tidbit for why the mutants may be acting a little proactive.

Not a minority status, a minority reality. Therefore the people of the nation has a wider definition and isn't based on race, but principles.

The definition of people of Krakoa encourages narrow-mindedness.

And where are you getting that from? There’s an entire council dedicated to showing off the different perspectives and interpretations that many groups of mutants feel. There are mutants who don’t exactly trust Krakoa or some of the higher ups, some who take the “No Humans” rule very seriously while other mutants are bit lax with it. This definition of “narrow-mindedness” is unfounded.

[Lapsus]

That’s exactly what he did.

But that wasnt the launch order, he never gave the order, he was hesitating the whole time until Nova copied his DNA and kill him.

I am not exonerating the guy of any fault but Nova would take the Trask DNA and launch the attack one way or another.

[SiegePerilous02]

But that wasnt the launch order, he never gave the order, he was hesitating the whole time until Nova copied his DNA and kill him.

I am not exonerating the guy of any fault but Nova would take the Trask DNA and launch the attack one way or another.

Yes he did, it happened off panel in the second issue. Those four Sentinels launching from the Master Mold factory as Scott is flying towards it were launched by his order. We get confirmation when he asks "Was it evil, Ms. Nova? What I've done, some would call it evil." So he hesitated up until the moment he didn't. After that Nova got all she needed from him and killed him (after revealing he has fantasies of keeping mutant women and children as slaves).

She would have done it one way or another, but the machines created by humans specifically to kill mutants were launched by an easily duped human.