Dick growing up...MISTAKE????

[The Darknight Detective]

I think it's more that he's famous for both identities, but Robin has been a household name since the 1960s. So I think it skews more towards that. A lot of adaptations do feature the transition, but they are using the recognition or Robin to boost Nightwing. As in, he used to be the most famous sidekick to one of the biggest superheroes ever, and now he's his own man. The connection to Robin is what makes Nightwing a big deal.

Yeah, if you mention to the average person who Dick Grayson is, they're going to say he's Robin almost every time. Nightwing just isn't that well known of a code name beyond out hobby.

[Vakanai]

I don't know if it was a mistake but I definitely don't want them to age up Batman for Dick's sake. Never cared for all the legacy stuff.

[sifighter]

I don't know if it was a mistake but I definitely don't want them to age up Batman for Dick's sake. Never cared for all the legacy stuff.

I gotta ask and I am legitimately curious, but why would Batman being aged up be a bad thing?

[Jon Clark]

I gotta ask and I am legitimately curious, but why would Batman being aged up be a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing up to a point. The two-fold problem is that publishers believe new readers aren't interested in a hero who is as old or older than their parents and (some) long-time readers start to question how long Batman remains active before the physical demands of being Batman become too much.

[Jon Clark]

It's not a bad thing up to a point. The two-fold problem is that publishers believe new readers aren't interested in a hero who is as old or older than their parents and (some) long-time readers start to question how long Batman remains active before the physical demands of being Batman become too much.

Pre-Crisis Superman was said to be 29 because it was thought a 30 year old Superman was too much for new readers to connect with. The 1st JSA book Post-Crisis was cancelled because an editor insisted no one wanted to read about heroes that old.

[The Darknight Detective]

It's not a bad thing up to a point. The two-fold problem is that publishers believe new readers aren't interested in a hero who is as old or older than their parents and (some) long-time readers start to question how long Batman remains active before the physical demands of being Batman become too much.

Right. Since Batman is never going to give up the cowl permanently, it creates a problem for DC management.

[The Darknight Detective]

Pre-Crisis Superman was said to be 29 because it was thought a 30 year old Superman was too much for new readers to connect with. The 1st JSA book Post-Crisis was cancelled because an editor insisted no one wanted to read about heroes that old.

Yeah, unless they were immortals or from Earth 2, all superheroes pre-Crisis were under 30.

[Jon Clark]

Right. Since Batman is never going to give up the cowl permanently, it creates a problem for DC management.

It's more than just that. Even if they don't reach a "retirement age" there is the question of a Batman whose physical feats are less impressive. A story where Nightwing or Batgirl is doing most of the fighting or where the street thug actually escapes because Bruce just can't keep up during a chase. No one wants to write an ongoing Batman as the athlete who is past his prime.

[sifighter]

It's not a bad thing up to a point. The two-fold problem is that publishers believe new readers aren't interested in a hero who is as old or older than their parents and (some) long-time readers start to question how long Batman remains active before the physical demands of being Batman become too much.

No I get that. Like I said in this thread earlier clearly the four robins situation, and one being his biological son, does in fact raise some questions to how old Bruce should be and how much longer he should be in the suit. But then wouldn't the better response then confusing time resets just be to say that Bruce was and always will be the original Batman and that eventually characters like Dick or Damian decades later or some brand new character not even invented yet if they so choose just to take up the mantle as the new Batman for those reasons. Its what they did with Wally post Crisis and it was pretty natural to the story telling of the time or even something like Earth 2 JSA or Infinity Inc, where the original heroes got older but they introduced their kids and relatives who would become new heroes for new readers. At least that's my thoughts on the matter, to be fair its not as if DC has done anything wrong up to date with keeping Bruce as Batman.

[Jon Clark]

Yeah, unless they were immortals or from Earth 2, all superheroes pre-Crisis were under 30.

Even on Eath-2, Roy Thomas covered them by writing a story to let the street level JSAers remain close to their physical primes when they were over 60 years old.

[Riv86672]

I don't think anyone would really want Donna, Roy, or Garth to go back to being teenagers either.

I guess I don't count.

No, I think you do!
It’s how we’ve wound up w. characters like Kaldur'ahm, Tim Drake, Cassie Sandsmark, Wallace West, Bart Allen, and even Conner Kent and Arrowette and Emiko Queen. It’s a way to get the kid hero versions of Garth, Dick, Donna, Wally, Superman, Roy back while keeping the New Teen Titans older.

[gregpersons]

Yeah, if you mention to the average person who Dick Grayson is, they're going to say he's Robin almost every time. Nightwing just isn't that well known of a code name beyond out hobby.

I think Nightwing is actually very well known to the average person. Anyone under 40 grew up in a time when Dick was Nightwing.

[The Darknight Detective]

I think Nightwing is actually very well known to the average person. Anyone under 40 grew up in a time when Dick was Nightwing.

If you're reading comics, I agree, but most people don't read comics. For them, Nightwing isn't a recognizable name.

[Jon Clark]

No I get that. Like I said in this thread earlier clearly the four robins situation, and one being his biological son, does in fact raise some questions to how old Bruce should be and how much longer he should be in the suit. But then wouldn't the better response then confusing time resets just be to say that Bruce was and always will be the original Batman and that eventually characters like Dick or Damian decades later or some brand new character not even invented yet if they so choose just to take up the mantle as the new Batman for those reasons. Its what they did with Wally post Crisis and it was pretty natural to the story telling of the time or even something like Earth 2 JSA or Infinity Inc, where the original heroes got older but they introduced their kids and relatives who would become new heroes for new readers. At least that's my thoughts on the matter, to be fair its not as if DC has done anything wrong up to date with keeping Bruce as Batman.

I've advocated for a while that if DC had phased out Bruce and replaced him with Dick in the Batsuit permanently it would have worked. But the consensus is that Bruce Wayne is Batman and always will be. There just is no way that DC will ever allow, outside of temporary storylines, for anyone to replace Bruce going forward. And to be fair I really can't point to any long-running version of a hero being replaced. Wally is the closest example and DC undercut that that by reviving Barry. We will never get a modern version of the Silver Age where a New Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, … are introduced and Barry, Hal, Ray and the classic JLA are relegated to being supporting cast. Every attempt to do so is doomed to eventually lead to the Silver Ager reclaiming the spotlight as young and vital.

[Vakanai]

I gotta ask and I am legitimately curious, but why would Batman being aged up be a bad thing?

Because you start aging him up eventually someone will ask "Why would him retiring be a bad thing?" Simply put I'm against that sort of progression because I don't like the passing on the torch, everything changes, legacy stuff. You start aging the characters then when do you stop aging them? There's always the threat that the answer is you don't stop. And I will just never have any interest in that.