Skill versus size/strength (martial arts vs. athleticism)

[BitVyper]

Going with Deja Fu

[Sharpandpointies]

Going with Deja Fu

Temporal Fugue is everything Deja Fu wants to be and more, I'm afraid to say. ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

...granted, it serves a side order of 'Potentially destroying planets and endangering the fabric of space and time', but that's what you get when you want to learn Teh Bestest™. ^_^

[BitVyper]

Got a better name though. The real key to dramatic martial arts is branding. That's why everyone shouts their moves. Who's gonna remember something with "fugue" in the name? You'll forever be the guy who uses "temporal foogoo"

[Sharpandpointies]

Who's gonna remember something with "fugue" in the name?

...nobody, because they're already dead.

*gales of laughter*

No, really. ^_^

Anyway, I've always been more about practicality. But mileage, etc.

[big_adventure]

There's a street food guy near my place that sells temporal foogoo with extra chili sauce, and it's breathtaking.

[Jackalope89]

It requires a certain amount of judgement, choosing one's techniques when against big guys, yes. ^_^

What did you train in, and for how long?

A little bit of everything. Kenpo, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, BJJ, (collegiate/high school) wrestling, muay thai, krav maga, boxing, kick boxing, escrima sticks, bo staff, kamas, knives... Like I said, a little bit of everything. Had to stop though, my knees were just getting too poor condition to keep going (and haven't gotten better).

[FrenchGemini]

The really impressive thing is that it hasn't devolved into an argument about how everyone else's style's suck, and the one each person practices is somehow Teh Bestest™. Thank goodness. Chest-beating is always...ugh.

Coming in late, I'll say that Savate is Teh Bestest, look at our fashion sense . Some of the people in this kind of disciplines (thinking about an acquaintance of mine who specializes in the Canne discipline) even grow mustaches as fabulous as Batroc, oo lala.

Anyway, as a tall and somewhat experienced striker, I'd say the person who gives me the most trouble (outside of the national-level competitors in my Savate class, against which I put up a good defense on a good day, and my JKD instructors, who are in their forties, still in shape, and have about 15 years of experience on me) is a Muay Thai player from my JKD class, who is shorter than I am, but also much more explosive, and is trained to catch any kick that is a bit too slow, so, another important variable in the equation.

As a rookie Judo player, and one of the tallest and heaviest in my class at 6' and 175lbs... well, aside from two other yellow belts, the rest is in the brown to black belt range, getting ragdolled in standing randori, I get by in newaza thanks to one of my JKD instructors, and my weight and relative youth do help in not getting stomped.

[Guy1]

Going with Deja Fu

[BitVyper]

There you go

[Ptrvc]

It's a fantastic martial art that fails miserably against Temporal Fugue, is all I'm going to say. ^_^

Is that like Deja Fu?

[BitVyper]

Now I'm getting deja vu

[Ptrvc]

Now I'm getting deja vu

It's working.

All I know is HEMA and mostly Longsword at that.

I'd say size and strength matter a bit less in armed and unarmored combat since the weapon functions as a force multiplier (it still matters though particularly reach).

Though paradoxically skill matters a bit less too. As one lucky shot has pretty good odds of being lethal.

[Sharpandpointies]

A little bit of everything. Kenpo, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, BJJ, (collegiate/high school) wrestling, muay thai, krav maga, boxing, kick boxing, escrima sticks, bo staff, kamas, knives... Like I said, a little bit of everything. Had to stop though, my knees were just getting too poor condition to keep going (and haven't gotten better).

Sometimes it's good to diversify. One can go a little extreme on that -- there was someone rather infamous in the Ottawa martial arts community for never managing to stay more than 3-5 months in any school, and continuing this all over the city for about 15 years. Sounds like you've had a varied and interesting time.

Sorry to hear about the knees. After 30 years of training, mine are sort of holding on, though I've had crap like a meniscus tear happen, and more recently a rotator cuff injury (ugh, that was the worst...).

Coming in late, I'll say that Savate is Teh Bestest, look at our fashion sense . Some of the people in this kind of disciplines (thinking about an acquaintance of mine who specializes in the Canne discipline) even grow mustaches as fabulous as Batroc, oo lala.

I've always liked Savate, and fashion is just one aspect. Ooo, those pointy shoes... *swoons*

Anyway, as a tall and somewhat experienced striker, I'd say the person who gives me the most trouble (outside of the national-level competitors in my Savate class, against which I put up a good defense on a good day, and my JKD instructors, who are in their forties, still in shape, and have about 15 years of experience on me) is a Muay Thai player from my JKD class, who is shorter than I am, but also much more explosive, and is trained to catch any kick that is a bit too slow, so, another important variable in the equation.

As a rookie Judo player, and one of the tallest and heaviest in my class at 6' and 175lbs... well, aside from two other yellow belts, the rest is in the brown to black belt range, getting ragdolled in standing randori, I get by in newaza thanks to one of my JKD instructors, and my weight and relative youth do help in not getting stomped.

Always love hearing from you, French. Wish you were around here; would be a blast training with you and getting pointers.

Is that like Deja Fu?

Ironically, Temporal Fugue predates Deja Fu in the fictional world (story in question was written literally decades -- plural -- before Pratchett's story). Or maybe not ironically, seeing as it's more comprehensive and how Temporal Fugue works. ^_^

It's a fighting system that involves the manipulation of time. Or perhaps the manipulation of time used as a fighting system. Probably the latter, though 'Chicken and Egg' discussions with regards to Temporal Fugue get...weird. Either way, it's a learned thing. Anyway, one can travel forward and backward in time to attack and defend. This allows for bypassing any hope of defense, as 'hitting someone 6 seconds in the future' or 'I already hit you in the past' is pretty hard to defend against, especially when (yep) this explicitly REWRITES TIMELINES. It also explicitly ignores defenses -- that's not just an assumption I'm making, it's something that's demonstrated in the books.

Worse, it allows for time to be manipulated to the point where the user actually has multiple selves acting in different times in the seconds/minutes of the fight 'around' the present, thus preventing other users of Temporal Fugue (and, one presumes, Deja Fu) from going backwards/forwards to try to hit them when they cannot defend. Ie, Deja Fu guy says 'Okay, I'm going to hit you three seconds ago', only to find a duplicate of the Fugue user already there, grinning, to prevent them. I kid you not.

And these 'duplicates' -- being the actual person -- can do this as well. So this tends to multiply when two Fugue-users fight and continuously keep moving themselves through time to 'create' more of themselves.

There are scenes in the books where literally hundreds of fighters are fighting at the same 'time' (or in a small space of time)...but it's really only two people. And they are literally killing each other again and again and again -- there are hundreds of bodies everywhere on top of that -- but it doesn't matter, because 'other' versions of themselves from 0.1 seconds 'ahead' or 3 seconds 'behind' are constantly stepping in to change the outcome and rewrite history...and space-time starts to break down and the world itself is threatened.

In addition, others who have learned this 'style'/ability have done stuff like 'travel to the past and become their own grandfather'. Literally (it's a thing with two of the main characters that they refer to each other as 'my son', and are correct about it).

It's also reflexive and retroactive -- one of the main characters gets hit by complete surprise with The Hammer That Smashes Suns (it's an energy weapon that is made to drive suns into a Supernova instantly, and has...extreme effects when used on things other than Suns, like obliterating planets casually) and basically 'nopes' it by reflexively using Temporal Fugue to not be there.

....the entire thing gets undone a moment later when ANOTHER character with Temporal Fugue, watching the battle, sees the Hammer being used and says "That's shitty, I'm stopping that", uses Temporal Fugue, and everyone watching basically sees him disappear, and instantly the Hammer itself is a shattered wreck drifting through space (it's a vessel) and all of the crap the Hammer destroyed is sort of back. I say sort of, because the guy HIT by the Hammer isn't, not really, because HIS use of Temporal Fugue means HE doesn't come back and arrgh, it's confusing.

It's working.

All I know is HEMA and mostly Longsword at that.

I'd say size and strength matter a bit less in armed and unarmored combat since the weapon functions as a force multiplier (it still matters though particularly reach).

Though paradoxically skill matters a bit less too. As one lucky shot has pretty good odds of being lethal.

Nothing wrong with HEMA. Good stuff, there.

Yeah, blades don't give many shits about 'I have more muscle and mass and am thus harder to injure', and blunt weapons are great levers. And yes, the first real shot that lands would likely prove either the winning one, or set up the winning one; not always, but going into shock or losing mobility thanks to an injury would often start the avalanche.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

I always revert back to what my dad used to say (used to do Karate years back):

All things being equal (skill, environment the fight is happening in, etc....), a good big man will always beat a good little man. Mass and size are a hard thing to counter.

There are some people who can simply power out of arm bars and the like. Or ones who’s wrists are so strong/thick you can’t bend or twist them.

Skill is very important and can make a difference. But putting a 5’1 person at 100lbs against a 6’1 at 200lbs probably won’t end well for the former if the latter is even remotely competent.