Skill versus size/strength (martial arts vs. athleticism)

[Sharpandpointies]

Absolutely. All other things being equal, any one factor that is different will certainly tip the scales. ^_^ And size certainly is one of those factors, and the more size disparity it is, the more difficult it is to make up with the other factors.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Absolutely. All other things being equal, any one factor that is different will certainly tip the scales. ^_^ And size certainly is one of those factors, and the more size disparity it is, the more difficult it is to make up with the other factors.

Yeah, the example as I recall was my dad knew two roommates in college, both who took the same martial arts class. One was about 5’6 to 5’8 and about 170lbs on the high end. He was more skilled than the other by a fair amount.

The second guy was about 6’3 and about 230lbs to 250lbs.

The second guy won each time they sparred apparently. Even though his form wasn’t as good, he knew enough that the skill disparity meant all of nothing.

[Ptrvc]

Honestly, the more I study fencing the more and more I start to loathe the trope of the "impossibly skilled swordsman."

Mainly because I find the real thing beautiful even with it's limitations. Beyond size, strength, speed, and skill there is courage, audacity, and the realization that despite all the advantages in the world, you might get your life cut.

I don't do that admittedly, we use safety gear and blunts, federal and synthetics of course.

Still there is a poetry in the reality that cutting space and time will never be able to match, no matter your special be effects budget.

[DanMad1977]

Coming late to the thread, the fact that many light guys pounded and beat Bob Sapp, a real monster with fighting experience shows us that there is always a way to beat the bigger guy. IF you are fast enough and durable.

On the other side I have seen Brock Lesnar pound any guy with sheer strength into the ground in Ufc (until he lost somewhere down the line). Okay, he was a very good wrestler (I mean the sport, not the entertainment) before, but he didn't seem to use it much the way I see it.

[The Chou Lives]

Note: Kung FU literally translates as "Hard work"

Most of the time the training is to prep the body to be capable of doing the advanced stuff.

Keep that in mind. So a trianed person respetablely means they are in decent shape to do their art.

Natural proweress person still hasa advantage I guess, but depending on what it is and said trainnig and what, should be a trained fighter.

THe most dangeorus foes are those who fit both together.

[Sharpandpointies]

Honestly, the more I study fencing the more and more I start to loathe the trope of the "impossibly skilled swordsman."

Mainly because I find the real thing beautiful even with it's limitations. Beyond size, strength, speed, and skill there is courage, audacity, and the realization that despite all the advantages in the world, you might get your life cut.

I don't do that admittedly, we use safety gear and blunts, federal and synthetics of course.

Still there is a poetry in the reality that cutting space and time will never be able to match, no matter your special be effects budget.

I agree (and it's one reason I find it harder and harder to watch so many Hollywood fight sequences).

...I would also like to note that in addition, I detest the trope of 'The best swordsman in the world fears not the second best, but the worst.'

It's BS, and anyone who has actually trained with weapons knows it.

[Harbinger19]

I agree (and it's one reason I find it harder and harder to watch so many Hollywood fight sequences).

...I would also like to note that in addition, I detest the trope of 'The best swordsman in the world fears not the second best, but the worst.'

It's BS, and anyone who has actually trained with weapons knows it.

Imma use muh confusion-fu to move unpredictably and throw off your too well-trained reflexes with muh UNCONVENTIONAL DIRTY FIGHTING!

[The Arbiter]

Imma use muh confusion-fu to move unpredictably and throw off your too well-trained reflexes with muh UNCONVENTIONAL DIRTY FIGHTING!

Hey. Hey.

Are you dissing the Huntress right now?? I know you aren't dissing the Huntress. She has STREET skills.

[BitVyper]

I agree (and it's one reason I find it harder and harder to watch so many Hollywood fight sequences).

...I would also like to note that in addition, I detest the trope of 'The best swordsman in the world fears not the second best, but the worst.'

It's BS, and anyone who has actually trained with weapons knows it.

Depends on if it's a fight to the death or not, I guess. It's not like fighting only counts when it's life or death, even in duelling systems. Obviously if your life is on the line, you want to fight the guy you know you can beat, but if it's not, that can turn into a really unpleasant experience where yeah you'll win, but like wanton flailing can lead to a lot of outcomes that still suck even if you win. I submit as evidence every single time I got slashed with a foil or bonked on the head with a bokken. Imagine you're in some ancient gladiator scenario where you're fighting to whatever gets you a point or a win, and one guy isn't comfortable enough to know to stop after you've scored.

So I don't know about "fear" per se, but like just about guaranteed that fighting the unskilled guy sucks in a lot of scenarios even if you will win 99/100 times.

[Sharpandpointies]

Imma use muh confusion-fu to move unpredictably and throw off your too well-trained reflexes with muh UNCONVENTIONAL DIRTY FIGHTING!

Truth.

Hey. Hey.

Are you dissing the Huntress right now?? I know you aren't dissing the Huntress. She has STREET skills.

It's also Tim Drake, really.

Depends on if it's a fight to the death or not, I guess. It's not like fighting only counts when it's life or death, even in duelling systems. Obviously if your life is on the line, you want to fight the guy you know you can beat, but if it's not, that can turn into a really unpleasant experience where yeah you'll win, but like wanton flailing can lead to a lot of outcomes that still suck even if you win. I submit as evidence every single time I got slashed with a foil or bonked on the head with a bokken. Imagine you're in some ancient gladiator scenario where you're fighting to whatever gets you a point or a win, and one guy isn't comfortable enough to know to stop after you've scored.

So I don't know about "fear" per se, but like just about guaranteed that fighting the unskilled guy sucks in a lot of scenarios even if you will win 99/100 times.

Fighting sucks period, not just fighting the unskilled guy. I feel that fighting unskilled people only really stinks more in sporting or teaching scenarios where, as you note, they'll likely do something that gets both people or the SKILLED person hurt, because they don't follow the training plan, or break the rules of whatever sport it is without realizing, or whathaveyou.

But these are things that I feel the cliché isn't about. It's a quote from a book by Mark Twain, and regarding actual fighting in 'medieval' (Arthurian) times; hence, I feel it's in reference to serious fights. And for serious fights? It's BS.

And it seems to be how people use it, and sometimes take it seriously. It's right up there with 'dirty fighting', and has the same sort of idea behind it.

And for me, winning 99/100 times isn't a sucky situation; it's a better situation than winning 60/40, which might be the case with 'he's second best'. But mileage, etc. ^_^ <-- I'm not talking about training here, the only winning in training is both people getting better. ^_^