Skill versus size/strength (martial arts vs. athleticism)

[The Arbiter]

In the UFC before that one, another Sumo fighter got head kicked into oblivion by a retired french kickboxer. Probably an 80lbs differential. Going off of memory here.

But yeah, GSP is unbelievably well rounded compared to Hackney.

Edit: Also, you should watch Nogueira vs Bob Sapp in Pride! Huge weight difference. This was back before Sapp started throwing fights also.

[Sharpandpointies]

There's that gigantic Hong Man Choi MMA guy who fought Fedor, as well. Yeah, it's Fedor, but isn't that the point? Size versus skill? The gigantic Korean guy here was trained and experienced as well, not 'just' 7'2" tall and 350 lbs, while Fedor gave up a TON of reach and over 100 lbs (Fedor's weight is around 240). So it wasn't 'smaller good guy against big guy with zero experience', it was 'smaller good guy against big guy who HAS experience'.

Fedor won that one, yes.

[The Arbiter]

Its worth noting that Choi and Sapp BOTH had moments of quite /literally/ rag dolling their opponents. Yes they lost, but oof.

[Sharpandpointies]

Its worth noting that Choi and Sapp BOTH had moments of quite /literally/ rag dolling their opponents. Yes they lost, but oof.

There is ZERO question that size DOES matter.

[FistofIron]

Its worth noting that Choi and Sapp BOTH had moments of quite /literally/ rag dolling their opponents. Yes they lost, but oof.

Sapp vs Nogueira was wild.

[The Arbiter]

There is ZERO question that size DOES matter.

The age old David and Goliath match up remains very intriguing. =)

[The Arbiter]

Sapp vs Nogueira was wild.

It was bonkers. It's not crazy to suggest that Sapp could have MURDERED people not named Nogueira with that slam.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm watching that Fedor/Hong fight, and realizing what a freaking tactician Fedor is. He basically encourages Hong to fall on top of him (not as dumb as it sounds) because, in his head, "He's got me right where I want him." Gets guard. Hong (wisely) basically hugs him at this point, and Fedor responds by holding both his own arms waaaaay out to the sides, open. Baiting him. Why?

Wants to get him punching.

Hong takes the bait, sits back and starts trying to hit...which extends his arms.

Boom, Fedor locks him. Done.

[FistofIron]

It was bonkers. It's not crazy to suggest that Sapp could have MURDERED people not named Nogueira with that slam.

He was terrifying when he wanted to be.

[The Arbiter]

I'm watching that Fedor/Hong fight, and realizing what a freaking tactician Fedor is. He basically encourages Hong to fall on top of him (not as dumb as it sounds) because, in his head, "He's got me right where I want him." Gets guard. Hong (wisely) basically hugs him at this point, and Fedor responds by holding both his own arms waaaaay out to the sides, open. Baiting him. Why?

Wants to get him punching.

Hong takes the bait, sits back and starts trying to hit...which extends his arms.

Boom, Fedor locks him. Done.

Cant say enough good stuff about Fedor.

The scariest part about him as that stuff like you described during the Choi fight is pretty standard for him. He was level 4 "unconsciously competent" with actual plans. Like legit set ups that most good fighters would still have to think out.

[Sharpandpointies]

Cant say enough good stuff about Fedor.

The scariest part about him as that stuff like you described during the Choi fight is pretty standard for him. He was level 4 "unconsciously competent" with actual plans. Like legit set ups that most good fighters would still have to think out.

Dude was ridiculous.

I saw one fight with him -- can't remember his opponent -- where he looked like he was going to lose. Dude was using him for a punching bag in the first round, which ended looking like someone had thrown a bucket of blood on Fedor's head.

Second round started the same way. Thing was, Fedor had been spending the first round watching the guy, noting tells, that kind of thing. And the guy -- if I recall -- would drop his right slightly before he threw it, or something like that.

So partway through the second round, the guy goes to throw that shot...and covered-in-blood Fedor beats him to the punch and just about takes his head off. Boom -- one-shots him, so hard I thought the guy's head would come off. And that was that.

Yeesh.

[FistofIron]

Dude was ridiculous.

I saw one fight with him -- can't remember his opponent -- where he looked like he was going to lose. Dude was using him for a punching bag in the first round, which ended looking like someone had thrown a bucket of blood on Fedor's head.

Second round started the same way. Thing was, Fedor had been spending the first round watching the guy, noting tells, that kind of thing. And the guy -- if I recall -- would drop his right slightly before he threw it, or something like that.

So partway through the second round, the guy goes to throw that shot...and covered-in-blood Fedor beats him to the punch and just about takes his head off. Boom -- one-shots him, so hard I thought the guy's head would come off. And that was that.

Yeesh.

Sounds like the Brett Rogers fight.

[Sharpandpointies]

Sounds like the Brett Rogers fight.

Could be...will need to look it up. Was a while ago, and the memory, she is a little off.

[carrrnuttt]

Small anecdote about how important skill/technique is vs size, even in striking:

When I was sill in the USAF, my old roommate/friend there was a 3rd Dan TKD black belt.

He was from the Philippines and was taught there by an actual Korean Master. He was also lucky enough to have been previously stationed in Korea and actually continued his TKD studies while he was there as well.

He told me, that TKD as taught in Asia has some distinct differences with how it is taught in the US. He moved to the US when he was around 15-16 and he joined a local TKD school in California where he was. He also started getting into tournaments here. What he quickly found out was, he'd either knock out or take down his opponents in quick order, but he'd often lose on points, at least in the beginning. One thing he learned from this is that he grew up learning to emphasize power and strength in his hits, while in the US, speed for quick points was not emphasized, per se, but learned through its repetition and lack of full contact fighting/tournaments.

I got all of the above story when I went with him to go check out a local martial arts gym he was thinking about going to (I think they had various disciplines, Karate and Kickboxing, but not TKD--it was the closest to the base). I noticed a couple of larger (6'+, 180-200ish) black belt dudes kicking the heavy bag, and they were moving it it pretty well. But when my friend would kick the bag with about the same effort, it was noticeably impressive how much more the bag moved. My friend was about 5'6", maybe 140 lbs on a wet day.

[wjowski]

Size can only get you so far if you don't know what to do with it.