Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51
  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,632

    Default Harley Quinn gets to be a villain and a hero: Fair or Foul

    The new Birds of Prey movie has got me thinking

    I know the concept of an anti hero and anti villain is not a new thing but lately it seems like DC wants to have its cake and eat it to.

    Harley Quinn is a member of the Suicide Squad that is usually her status quo. She commits crimes and has to serve her sentence there
    This allows her some immense flexibility as well. The missions she's allowed to go out on create an excuse for why she is out running free wherever she may be in the DCU
    So now you might see her featured in Gotham with Ivy or Selina or working with the JL(really not a fan of this)
    Someone even pointed out to me in a recent annual for teen titans she killed a teen girl on a mission for the squad right under the nose of kid flash

    Harley Quinn also has her own solo adventures which are of course also in continuity but not along the same track as the above timeline. They are in the "future" where she is no longer a member of the skwad and has been released to do whatever she wants out in the world.

    Then you have the black label series which are doing their own thing and are basically elseworlds stories but you are seeing storylines where she's more heroic like in Batman: The White Knight and Curse of the White Knight, Also Joker/ Harley criminal sanity.
    Then you have the books with a more villainous slant like Harleen and Batman: The damned

    That's a lot of different takes heroic and villainous

    The only other characters I see straddling the line like that in DC is Jason Todd and Lobo but of course they don't appear as much as Harley

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    8,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    The new Birds of Prey movie has got me thinking

    I know the concept of an anti hero and anti villain is not a new thing but lately it seems like DC wants to have its cake and eat it to.

    Harley Quinn is a member of the Suicide Squad that is usually her status quo. She commits crimes and has to serve her sentence there
    This allows her some immense flexibility as well. The missions she's allowed to go out on create an excuse for why she is out running free wherever she may be in the DCU
    So now you might see her featured in Gotham with Ivy or Selina or working with the JL(really not a fan of this)
    Someone even pointed out to me in a recent annual for teen titans she killed a teen girl on a mission for the squad right under the nose of kid flash

    Harley Quinn also has her own solo adventures which are of course also in continuity but not along the same track as the above timeline. They are in the "future" where she is no longer a member of the skwad and has been released to do whatever she wants out in the world.

    Then you have the black label series which are doing their own thing and are basically elseworlds stories but you are seeing storylines where she's more heroic like in Batman: The White Knight and Curse of the White Knight, Also Joker/ Harley criminal sanity.
    Then you have the books with a more villainous slant like Harleen and Batman: The damned

    That's a lot of different takes heroic and villainous

    The only other characters I see straddling the line like that in DC is Jason Todd and Lobo but of course they don't appear as much as Harley
    Narrative wise consistency is better. business wise if there's a demand for both then it's only fair. As a fan I don't have too much of a problem with Harley straddling the line.

    If other characters can get away with it then why not Harley?

  3. #3
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,989

    Default

    When I watch BATWOMAN, the brilliant portrayal of Alice by Rachel Skarsten is what I think Harley would have been if she had been allowed to continue as a villain. I really can't reconcile the Margot Robbie Harley Quinn with the one that was in BTAS. I pretty much have to separate the different Harleys, as completely different characters with different origins.

  4. #4
    Solid Member Odd Rödney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midgard
    Posts
    409

    Default

    I personally enjoyed the Injustice 2 video game version of Harley. With the Joker dead she had started the journey of redeeming herself under Batman's tutelage. Even wore the bat symbol on the back of her jacket.
    “After my initial feeling of being violated, seeing that pompous fool using my creation to stroke his infantile ego, it finally struck me that the leader of my country and the free world actually enjoys comparing himself to a mass murderer." - Jim Starlin, December 2019.

  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    48,651

    Default

    That inconsistency with Harley, on-top of how the heroes treat her now, is part of why I'm just kind of over her character right now.

    At least in other media they still regard her fairly consistently as a violent, crazy, Supervillain criminal.

  6. #6
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    20,924

    Default

    She should be one or the other. Be consistent. If she's a crook and serving with the Suicide Squad, she shouldn't be hanging out in the Hall of Justice or running scott free in her solo book.
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    5,811

    Default

    Crook. And more than "over her" at this point. She has no business being in the Hall of Justice, and should have a tracker on her at all times. And Waller, honestly should have hit the button on her awhile back.

  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    48,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    She should be one or the other. Be consistent. If she's a crook and serving with the Suicide Squad, she shouldn't be hanging out in the Hall of Justice or running scott free in her solo book.
    And heroes shouldn't just be giving her a pass because she's such a rascal...

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Narrative wise consistency is better. business wise if there's a demand for both then it's only fair. As a fan I don't have too much of a problem with Harley straddling the line.

    If other characters can get away with it then why not Harley?
    I remember someone at comic con telling jim lee or didio a lot of kids liked Harley and that DC was doing her a disservice as presenting her so overtly villainous. Someone even complained to Lauren Faust about why Harley Quinn was a villain on DC super hero girls
    So I know where the root of all this is born from imo

    My only issue is that if DC would just commit to presenting Harley as a straight anti hero who wasn't suddenly besties with every female hero and considered harmless then you could do everything similar to how Marvel is using the Punisher or Deadpool.

  10. #10
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,773

    Default

    Eh, it's not that different from Catwoman, just that Harley's moral code is even more broad and grey.

  11. #11

    Default

    It’s funny how people on this board complain about Harley, she committed crimes and got sent to prison where she was forced to be a part of the suicide squad. What crimes is she now committing that you are referring to? It’s not like members of the suicide squad have a choice. I see complaints about DC consistency but how is Harley worse than Catwoman or Ivy. It’s just the fact that she’s popular.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    5,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lucius121 View Post
    It’s funny how people on this board complain about Harley, she committed crimes and got sent to prison where she was forced to be a part of the suicide squad. What crimes is she now committing that you are referring to? It’s not like members of the suicide squad have a choice. I see complaints about DC consistency but how is Harley worse than Catwoman or Ivy. It’s just the fact that she’s popular.
    Ivy? No. But she's an ecoterrorist half the time anyway. Selina? She's a thief. She doesn't go around bashing other people's brains in and hooking up with a demented clown that goes on his own terror sprees. Hell, even the comparison to Jason Todd is way off. Jason may kill, but only in extreme cases. Harley practically revels in it.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    3,445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, it's not that different from Catwoman, just that Harley's moral code is even more broad and grey.
    Harley is an accessory to so many murder spreees and since they insist on joker never really having control or making her into what she is then she is responsible for all her actions with him

  14. #14
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    2,262

    Default

    Well, I don't care much for Harley, mostly, because I don't get the appeal nowadays. I liked Dini's Harley, the TAS characterization, though. And she has cool desings and a cool attitude. But ultimately, she's a pochie that I don't think I care for (weird, because I like Gwenpool, and she's the same kind of character when reduced to their very basic traits, I think)

    Mostly, because she is being written doing honest to God unvelieabable feats and befriending some unbelieabable friendships now and then. Because she's popular and she sells.

    I don't have a problem with her being now heroic, now villanious, to very different degrees. The hero of a stoy can be the villain of another, and people change as well, etcetera. It happens. The problem that I have with her, as I say, is that I can't find her belieavable most of the time.

    But I'm not a fan, so eh, psssh? If her fans and readers are fine with it, all is good.

    That being said, the movie looks like a lot of fun. I migh go watch it. The trailers are very promising. I can understand pushing her, because people are crazy for her, but eh, I would have liked putting in a Batgirl too, regardless (unless Cass is in as BG? But I don't think that's the case)
    Last edited by Zaresh; 02-04-2020 at 08:04 PM.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

    And this is my Tumblr. Sometimes I post stuff there.

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    48,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    I remember someone at comic con telling jim lee or didio a lot of kids liked Harley and that DC was doing her a disservice as presenting her so overtly villainous. Someone even complained to Lauren Faust about why Harley Quinn was a villain on DC super hero girls
    So I know where the root of all this is born from imo

    My only issue is that if DC would just commit to presenting Harley as a straight anti hero who wasn't suddenly besties with every female hero and considered harmless then you could do everything similar to how Marvel is using the Punisher or Deadpool.
    It's hard to really disassociate a character that was, from inception, meant to be a villain.

    Catwoman at least has being Batman's love interest that pulls her back from being a complete villain now but I don't think DC can keep making their female villains less villainous just because they end up popular. Because they ended up being popular as villains.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •