X-MEN/FF #1 REVIEW 2.0 (Spoilers)

[Fokken]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding culture, so please -- to anyone better versed, chime in -- but isn't culture more than physical contributions -- like art, music, and language? Isn't it about shared experience too?

When a black mother has to tell her black children about how to behave in the presence of law enforcement, is that not a cultural experience, unique to that community?
When a queer person coaches another queer person on how to navigate coming out to their family and friends and what challenges that may or may not present is that not a cultural experience, unique to that community?
When a mutant child's powers manifest and they inadvertently cause harm or damage to their environment, which then leads to their being feared/hunted, is that not a cultural experience, unique to that community?

I feel strongly that there IS a mutant culutre, and that its more than fashion, recipes, or residence.

[Lapsus]

https://www.xplainthexmen.com/2020/0...cious-baubles/
35:50

Zdarsky: “I liken it to a queer kid being raised by lefty, super well-meaning parents who will always say they understand and are super supportive but don’t understand 100%, so that kid has to find their community.”

Yup yup yup yup

That doesnt make any sense, if the kid needs to find his own community to explore his identity then those parents are not 100% supportive and that well-meaning.

It seems that he is trying to go by "Everyone has a point" but going by his argument, the Fantastic Four dont have any.

I dont see the comparison, they have every reason to be worried given the fact that Krakoa is hosting villains and some of them have actual political power. Not only that but Charles is using the culture thing as an excuse, that's not why they went there.

[spirit2011]

That doesnt make any sense, if the kid needs to find his own community to explore his identity then those parents are not 100% supportive and that well-meaning.

It seems that he is trying to go by "Everyone has a point" but going by his argument, the Fantastic Four dont have any.

I dont see the comparison, they have every reason to be worried given the fact that Krakoa is hosting villains and some of them have actual political power. Not only that but Charles is using the culture thing as an excuse, that's not why they went there.

Franklin never thought about running into a gate before the x-men came to get him. He always knew he was a mutant and was doing very fine being in full integration with humans.

The villains all living on Krakoa is a point against this. You don't want one of most powerful mutants having a risk to listen to Magneto, Exodus or Apocalypse.

What culture? mutant culture is on the very beggining, barely exists. ANd is very diluted with people of all different backgrounds

Her actions here are really a problem for me. After just hearing her parents wishes that Franklin stays with his family she sneaks him out thru a wall and just happens to take him to the mutant gate....coincidence?? I think not. She may have been there to play good cop...but she pretty much manipulated a minor into running away from home.

This was really bad. The X-men daring to override family instituition because of genetics. In reality isn't even genetics it is a project of power

[JB]

https://www.xplainthexmen.com/2020/0...cious-baubles/
35:50

Zdarsky: “I liken it to a queer kid being raised by lefty, super well-meaning parents who will always say they understand and are super supportive but don’t understand 100%, so that kid has to find their community.”

Yup yup yup yup

Thank you as always, Ty. Love this.

Love that this is being discussed and I also liked him saying that the big ideas of isolationism/separatism are purposely being rolled around.

EDIT: Regarding mutant culture, so far I think their biggest development has been living off the land in an eco-friendly way that hasn't been done before. I forget which book it was but there's a data page stating Krakoa produces next to no trash. They respect their land - they have to because it's alive.

[BAS]

What are everyone's thoughts on Kitty? She's the most reasonable one, but on a second read I look at her more negatively. She's clearly been brought on to play good cop, but with everything else she feels a little disingenuous. She's being used, but she should realize that. I'm having trouble putting it into words, but I had dim view of her actions on a second read.

I think that Kitty believes she's working towards Franklin's best interests and truly does care for him. It comes down to both her and Sue wanting to help Franklin in their own way - Sue is sheltering, and Kitty is encouraging. I kind of leave Reed out of the discussion because as was shown multiple times in the past AND in this issue, his ideas tend to be built around the logical side and not the emotional side.

But the fact that Kitty signed on for this 'show of force' by Charles and Eric to manipulate the FF shows she's not actually thinking right. She's still trusting in Charles doing good - and not seeing that he's been quite manipulative with all the X-men since HOX -- more than he ever has in the past. Now that he can bring mutants back to life at a moments notice, he treats the X-men as cannon fodder.

If Kitty was free to speak her mind with Charles, she would have been the one to say it would have been better for her, Charles and Storm to approach the Sue, Reed and Franklin in a more casual setting - without Charles wearing that ridiculous helmet that makes him look like a villain. The fact that he shows up looking like The Maker only arouses suspicions on the part of Reed and Sue.

[spirit2011]

I think that Kitty believes she's working towards Franklin's best interests and truly does care for him. It comes down to both her and Sue wanting to help Franklin in their own way - Sue is sheltering, and Kitty is encouraging. I kind of leave Reed out of the discussion because as was shown multiple times in the past AND in this issue, his ideas tend to be built around the logical side and not the emotional side.

But the fact that Kitty signed on for this 'show of force' by Charles and Eric to manipulate the FF shows she's not actually thinking right. She's still trusting in Charles doing good - and not seeing that he's been quite manipulative with all the X-men since HOX -- more than he ever has in the past. Now that he can bring mutants back to life at a moments notice, he treats the X-men as cannon fodder.

If Kitty was free to speak her mind with Charles, she would have been the one to say it would have been better for her, Charles and Storm to approach the Sue, Reed and Franklin in a more casual setting - without Charles wearing that ridiculous helmet that makes him look like a villain. The fact that he shows up looking like The Maker only arouses suspicions on the part of Reed and Sue.

Kitty isn't a mom, she doesn't know crap about parenting;

Sue and her kids aren't sheletered, they went all building new universes LOL that is completely opposite of sheltering

[BAS]

Kitty isn't a mom, she doesn't know crap about parenting;

Sue and her kids aren't sheletered, they went all building new universes LOL that is completely opposite of sheltering

Never said Kitty was a mom, but she is a friend. She definitely should respect his parents, why I said her actions in following Charles lead on this was wrong and she should have suggested a casual meeting to extend an invitation to Franklin.

Sue absolutely shelters her kids -- sure they went building new universes together, but they were always together. Letting Franklin and Val explore on their own would be the complete opposite of sheltering.

[JB]

Never said Kitty was a mom, but she is a friend. She definitely should respect his parents, why I said her actions in following Charles lead on this was wrong and she should have suggested a casual meeting to extend an invitation to Franklin.

Sue absolutely shelters her kids -- sure they went building new universes together, but they were always together. Letting Franklin and Val explore on their own would be the complete opposite of sheltering.

What's been the overall history of Doom's relationship with the kids? Someone mentioned earlier that Val has contacted him secretly in the past. Did her parents end up accepting their connection? I ask because I'm curious if Doom showing up at the end could have been at the request of Reed and Sue, or is he doing his own thing? I'm curious of the current dynamic he has with the Fam.

[Ravin' Ray]

Doom has on at least two occasions tried to use Franklin's power for himself. And he has a bond with Val having helped Sue deliver her (at Johnny's desperate behest as Reed was unavailable), for the privilege of naming her, and secretly making her his sorcerous familiar to enable him to strike at them through her. After he has brain damage during Fall of the Hulks, Val secretly strikes a deal with him to restore his intelligence in exchange for helping out the FF (becoming a member of the Future Foundation in the process).

[BAS]

What's been the overall history of Doom's relationship with the kids? Someone mentioned earlier that Val has contacted him secretly in the past. Did her parents end up accepting their connection? I ask because I'm curious if Doom showing up at the end could have been at the request of Reed and Sue, or is he doing his own thing? I'm curious of the current dynamic he has with the Fam.

Reed and Sue have an uneasy relationship with Doom when it comes to Val. Certainly Hickman played it up during his run, and Robinson followed suit when he had Val run off to Latveria and Sue stormed in to bring her back. Slott seems to have ignored this in the current run.

I don't think that they sent Doom out in pursuit of the kids, though. From her dialogue in this issue, Kitty said they were on a mission and it's just by coincidence it crosses Doom in some way. That's a big coincidence to bring Doom into the story - just to add another layer of conflict.

[useridgoeshere]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding culture, so please -- to anyone better versed, chime in -- but isn't culture more than physical contributions -- like art, music, and language? Isn't it about shared experience too?

When a black mother has to tell her black children about how to behave in the presence of law enforcement, is that not a cultural experience, unique to that community?
When a queer person coaches another queer person on how to navigate coming out to their family and friends and what challenges that may or may not present is that not a cultural experience, unique to that community?
When a mutant child's powers manifest and they inadvertently cause harm or damage to their environment, which then leads to their being feared/hunted, is that not a cultural experience, unique to that community?

I feel strongly that there IS a mutant culutre, and that its more than fashion, recipes, or residence.

Your take is great. There are hipsters who think eating sushi is Japanese culture but they're wrong.

That doesnt make any sense, if the kid needs to find his own community to explore his identity then those parents are not 100% supportive and that well-meaning.

It makes sense to me. They can be supportive but they have no idea what it means to be Mutant. All they can do is tell him it's okay but that's not that helpful. And he's been around Ben, who has spent his Franklin's life frequently hating being different and seeking a way to revert to being "normal".

It's clear Franklin does not understand what it means to be a Mutant nor can his parents show him. Some time on Krakoa would be valuable for him to learn.

[king of hybrids]

So setting aside the morality of using it on his son for well meaning but idiotic reasons; the though occurs that X-Gene cloaking tech is probably something Reed should have shared with the X-Men for all those time’s that bog-standard Sentinels were more active

[spirit2011]

Never said Kitty was a mom, but she is a friend. She definitely should respect his parents, why I said her actions in following Charles lead on this was wrong and she should have suggested a casual meeting to extend an invitation to Franklin.

Sue absolutely shelters her kids -- sure they went building new universes together, but they were always together. Letting Franklin and Val explore on their own would be the complete opposite of sheltering.

I know what you meant and Kitty still is very wrong.

Kids are often with tutelage of their parents, tha ti swhat I call raising kids. It isn't sheltering in any way. As we see them going on their own adventures while on FF

[Tycon]

Plus, Storm’s on the boat too and we know Doom has a big, fat crush on her.

I know what you meant and Kitty still is very wrong.

Kids are often with tutelage of their parents, tha ti swhat I call raising kids. It isn't sheltering in any way. As we see them going on their own adventures while on FF

Not allowing your kid to form any sort of independent identity outside of family is sheltering. They can go to different universes, timelines, worlds, etc etc but it’s always at the behest of the family.

[spirit2011]

Plus, Storm’s on the boat too and we know Doom has a big, fat crush on her.



Not allowing your kid to form any sort of independent identity outside of family is sheltering. They can go to different universes, timelines, worlds, etc etc but it’s always at the behest of the family.

They aren't doing that. Krakoa isn't the only way to be a mutant