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  1. #901

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That doesn't make sense, All pissing of the Parents would do is make them hold on their kid tighter. Which is what exactly happen.. There is no plan to take Franklin that didn't require getting the okay of the parents on some level. Charles is not trustworthy but this was not some eballorate plan to trick Franklin into hating his parents and leaving. You guys are reverse engineer the end results to fit a narrative. For the plan to work it would require Xavier knowing that Franklin has the ability to get away from his parents which he doesn't Reed has son and daughter low jacked(which is hilarious).
    He did have the ability to get away from his parents, though? He and Val have both run away.
    Plus, here’s the thing; even if Franklin did get to Krakoa, through the gate or not, Sue and Reed can’t follow without anyone’s permission. That is literally all Xavier would have to say “Well, he doesn’t want you there so I don’t feel comfortable granting access either,” etc and voila. Legal loop-hole.

    In any case, I really can’t see how Xavier could come across as anything but manipulative here. For one thing, he’s hardly keeping Erik from escalating tensions, or even doing anything to alleviate concerns. Rather than say, just offer to take the whole family through the gate for a tour and talk to the parents in any manner that doesn’t feel like a back-handed insult (as in, talking down to them) he just lets things keep building and building into a fight. He’s a smart man and a psychologist at that: he knows better than anyone what it takes to woo parents and prospective mutants; that was tactical alienation right there.

  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Rather than say, just offer to take the whole family through the gate for a tour and talk to the parents in any manner that doesn’t feel like a back-handed insult (as in, talking down to them) he just lets things keep building and building into a fight.
    It is interesting how rarely Charles is willing to work long-term with the parents of his students. It's always him taking them away, and never giving them back, or even encouraging the parents to come visit from time to time. Kitty's dad, IIRC, is the only one he's actively worked with (other than riding around on Corsair's ship, for a time). But if you're Ma Guthrie, or Hank or Bobby or 'Berto or Jean's parents, or Colossus' parents, he doesn't seem to care all that much (and you're as likely to get killed by a Shiar death-squad or External or whatever as the average X-Man...).

  3. #903

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    It is interesting how rarely Charles is willing to work long-term with the parents of his students. It's always him taking them away, and never giving them back, or even encouraging the parents to come visit from time to time. Kitty's dad, IIRC, is the only one he's actively worked with (other than riding around on Corsair's ship, for a time). But if you're Ma Guthrie, or Hank or Bobby or 'Berto or Jean's parents, or Colossus' parents, he doesn't seem to care all that much (and you're as likely to get killed by a Shiar death-squad or External or whatever as the average X-Man...).
    That’s a really good point to be honest! I mean, I always sort of attributed a lot of that to the physical distance between the kids and their parents once they got to the mansion (at least concerning Ma Guthrie) but...even then, Chuck was always rich as all hell; surely it must have crossed his mind to host some kind of parent-teacher event where parents can come visit and, maybe he pays the expenses of anyone financially unable? Or parent-teacher nights in general...? At least academically?

  4. #904
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    He did have the ability to get away from his parents, though? He and Val have both run away.
    Plus, here’s the thing; even if Franklin did get to Krakoa, through the gate or not, Sue and Reed can’t follow without anyone’s permission. That is literally all Xavier would have to say “Well, he doesn’t want you there so I don’t feel comfortable granting access either,” etc and voila. Legal loop-hole.

    In any case, I really can’t see how Xavier could come across as anything but manipulative here. For one thing, he’s hardly keeping Erik from escalating tensions, or even doing anything to alleviate concerns. Rather than say, just offer to take the whole family through the gate for a tour and talk to the parents in any manner that doesn’t feel like a back-handed insult (as in, talking down to them) he just lets things keep building and building into a fight. He’s a smart man and a psychologist at that: he knows better than anyone what it takes to woo parents and prospective mutants; that was tactical alienation right there.
    On a second read I agree Xavier did WANT to scalate tensions for the same reason other posters said, so Kitty could be the good cop and just tell Franklin "Do what you want to do":





    "You do not want to do this Susan" indeed.

    Wich I disagree because while Charles can certainly be VERY manipulative, unless he really has an emergency, he keeps himself from doing this kind of things to other super groups. From the two sides Charles is certainly the one who seems to have the hidden agenda, reason why Dr Doom is asking for him especifically imo.

    About parents and students:

    While the parents are not very much talked about, Jean keep seeing her parents until the "End of the Greys" story, Beast still sees his parents, Scott is used to visit his grandparents almost every holiday, Bobby has a hard relationship with his dad so he doesn`t visit him much, despite what it may seem the X-men don`t keep ppl from their parents, the New mutants went with their parents during the holidays even when Magneto was running the School and I suppose we will see how the X-men will manage this situation with Krakoa now but we have already seen Betsy wanting to take her brother there and Cyclops talking with his dad at his home so this mutant-human separation doesn`t seem to include family.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 02-07-2020 at 10:10 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  5. #905
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    Scott's father and his crew still weren't actually allowed on the island and Betsy's family includes two people who are mutants...wait, Meggan is some sort of mutant, right?

  6. #906

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    kind of an oversimplification. several people were murdered by that imaginary nazi monster. what do you think would have happened had he killed himself?
    Miiiiiiiiike. If Steve Rogers had shield bashed that little girl's head in, you would bring that up whenever anyone mentioned him. There's nothing wrong with liking a villain. The point of them being villains is you don't have to defend them. Magneto gonna Magneto.
    Retired poster. You can't ban me, I quit

  7. #907
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Scott's father and his crew still weren't actually allowed on the island and Betsy's family includes two people who are mutants...wait, Meggan is some sort of mutant, right?
    It`s not that they were not allowed, Corsair wanted to visit his Son and Scott`s house is literally on the moon and he`s a space pirate so he didn`t need to get into the island. Betsy invited her brother to Krakoa before they were attacked and she had to take the mantle of Captain Britain.

    It`s also been said X-factor will explore more the question of humans living on Krakoa.

    On the topic, now that Doom is involved it would be hilarious if he made Magneto remember how HE reacted when Doom wanted to marry Wanda, even if she isn`t his daughter anymore.

    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 02-07-2020 at 10:43 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  8. #908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I just don't think Xavier wanted them to "understand." He wanted them to be mad and unreasonable.

    Even if he did trust humans, Xavier wouldn't want Reed to come along. Reed would want to be a part of the experiments, he would want to maybe even share parts of his research and he would expect them to share with him.xavier doesn't want that.
    Yeah, this is the one explanation that makes sense. Xavier is a very smart man. He must know that bringing along characters as belligerent as Magneto and Wolverine would add fuel to the fire. Kitty was the carrot; Magneto was the stick. Xavier was manipulating the FF to provoke the exact response he got from Franklin.

    But... I doubt very much Franklin will end up living on the island. I don't think he will like how the mutants treat Val and the rest of his family. As for Kate, she always cared about doing the right thing. It also wouldn't surprise me if she was left questioning whether there was still a place for her alongside the X-Men.
    Last edited by Marvelman; 02-07-2020 at 10:54 PM.

  9. #909
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    It is interesting how rarely Charles is willing to work long-term with the parents of his students. It's always him taking them away, and never giving them back, or even encouraging the parents to come visit from time to time.
    Comic book writing… Long-term working would mean the necessity to keep track of previous interactions and would make the following stories more complicated.

  10. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    It`s not that they were not allowed, Corsair wanted to visit his Son and Scott`s house is literally on the moon and he`s a space pirate so he didn`t need to get into the island. Betsy invited her brother to Krakoa before they were attacked and she had to take the mantle of Captain Britain.

    It`s also been said X-factor will explore more the question of humans living on Krakoa.

    On the topic, now that Doom is involved it would be hilarious if he made Magneto remember how HE reacted when Doom wanted to marry Wanda, even if she isn`t his daughter anymore.

    I imagine the more pertinent issue is that, even if he primarily only planned for the the events of Darker than scarlet/Avengers Disassembled, his was the mind behind M-Day

    Well, setting aside Be dis’ weird hate-on for the Witch and all the retroactive dodginess added to Strange, Xavier and Magneto and their overseeing of Wanda pre-House of M since then

  11. #911
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    I imagine the more pertinent issue is that, even if he primarily only planned for the the events of Darker than scarlet/Avengers Disassembled, his was the mind behind M-Day. Well, setting aside Be dis’ weird hate-on for the Witch and all the retroactive dodginess added to Strange, Xavier and Magneto and their overseeing of Wanda pre-House of M since then
    Yes I could see them talk about Wanda and M-day the problem is that I don`t think Magneto quite buys Doom`s hand on HoM, sure he accepted his confession as a way for the Wanda to be allowed to come back from hidding unharmed but I don`t think he really believes Doom was behind M-day, he had a part on wanda getting overpowered? sure, but him being responsible of M-day is more doubtful as he would gain nothing from it.

    I don`t think Bendis hates Wanda, he did try to write her in a sympathetic manner on HoM, the main problem imo is that he didn`t have an end-game for her after the event, he used her character to get rid of mutants and then just let her go to limbo for years, if her come back story or redemption or even a kind of dark phoenix Jean explanation was given sooner Wanda could have been back earlier than she did and with a better relationship with mutants.

    Given Hickman`s recent mention of her on X-men, she may have a future interaction with them, I hope it leaves the relationship between her and the X-men in a better place than Children`s Crusade did.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  12. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Comic book writing… Long-term working would mean the necessity to keep track of previous interactions and would make the following stories more complicated.
    Oh, I agree. There certainly hasn't been any long-term 'keep 'em away from their human families and make them stay here, sure that I'm the only safe harbor for them in this world!' agenda from Xavier, but, with a little sideways squint, a writer could make it *look* like this has always been the case...

    It reminds me of that little mind-game Emma played on Scott back during Whedon's Astonishing run, when she asked him, "Why did Charles pick *you* to be the leader? He always liked Jean better. Between you and me, he's always thought psychics were a cut above. Hank's a genius. Warren's upper-crust, part of his crowd. And then there's you, unable to go out into the world and live a normal life because of your mutation, unable to ever leave him. Good old dependable Scott. Safe on his leash."
    Last edited by Sutekh; 02-08-2020 at 02:55 AM.

  13. #913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Miiiiiiiiike. If Steve Rogers had shield bashed that little girl's head in, you would bring that up whenever anyone mentioned him. There's nothing wrong with liking a villain. The point of them being villains is you don't have to defend them. Magneto gonna Magneto.

    I prefer Hydra-Cap

    Anyways, let’s flip it. Say Captain America showed up at a Krakoan gate. Magneto immediately puts up a force field. Wouldn’t Sue’s defenders be calling it an act of aggression?
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 02-08-2020 at 05:19 AM.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  14. #914

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    About Chuck. Hickman is calling him the real deal. I believe that he is genetically Charles Xavier. But keep in mind that Charles wasn’t alone in the womb. He’s a twin. Is it possible that he’s both himself and Cassandra?
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  15. #915

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    It`s not that they were not allowed, Corsair wanted to visit his Son and Scott`s house is literally on the moon and he`s a space pirate so he didn`t need to get into the island. Betsy invited her brother to Krakoa before they were attacked and she had to take the mantle of Captain Britain.

    It`s also been said X-factor will explore more the question of humans living on Krakoa.

    On the topic, now that Doom is involved it would be hilarious if he made Magneto remember how HE reacted when Doom wanted to marry Wanda, even if she isn`t his daughter anymore.
    Wanda has bad choice in dude’s. Magneto was trying to save her from an abusive relationship. Would have ended up a skin suit like the OG Valeria.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

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