X-MEN/FF #1 REVIEW 2.0 (Spoilers)

[Michael Watkins]

Is it canon? Is anything in comics really canon? Miller, Waid and Slott write Doom like it's still the 60s.

where should the cut off be for considering his continuity? is Marvel Super Villain Team-up too long ago? are we only going to cherry pick the stories that paint him out to be the second coming of jesus? what separates him from Reed is that he's a child killing narcissist. both are super geniuses who often make really bad decisions out of hubris.

[Michael Watkins]

Doom is a lot more trustable then these 2 villains.

tell it to the Intelligencia

[TooFlyToFail]

the solo had continuation in uncanny x-men and x-men blue where his characther changed, its more your fault for not reading everything cause at the end of x-men blue magneto was back in brotherhood mode, same writer all the way trough

First, I did keep up. I liked Blue.

Still that's my point; you gotta read all this other stuff to understand things, or you're lost. Then you get writers like Bendis or Millar that just do whatever they want. It's a big reason why new readers for comics are slim af compared to manga.

Now, have you paid attention to Doom? It's been whiplash with his character from writer to writer.

[spirit2011]

tell it to the Intelligencia

Doom saved the multiverse

[Ferro]

First, I did keep up. I liked Blue.

Still that's my point; you gotta read all this other stuff to understand things, or you're lost. Then you get writers like Bendis or Millar that just do whatever they want. It's a big reason why new readers for comics are slim af compared to manga.

Now, have you paid attention to Doom? It's been whiplash with his character from writer to writer.

that seems like a doom problem, we were talking about mags

[TooFlyToFail]

where should the cut off be for considering his continuity? is Marvel Super Villain Team-up too long ago? are we only going to cherry pick the stories that paint him out to be the second coming of jesus? what separates him from Reed is that he's a child killing narcissist. both are super geniuses who often make really bad decisions out of hubris.

When did those stories portray Doom as a saint? I'm saying you can't develop a character, then have him act like stuff never happened with the next writer. Then you'll have comic fans say the equivalent of "Well, he started off as a villain, so even if not explained, his inexplicable change in character back to a villain after years of development is acceptable. Becuz comics." That's how you have movies about these characters making billions, but comics about them selling 50k copies.

But hell, since Doom will always be a villain no matter what, Magneto and Sinister will always be murderous psychopaths.

[Glio]

Apocalypse saved the world from a demonic invasion during the separation of Krakoa / Arakko and from a Brood invasion in Ancient Egypt. This is a stupid competition.

[spirit2011]

Apocalypse saved the world from a demonic invasion during the separation of Krakoa / Arakko and from a Brood invasion in Ancient Egypt. This is a stupid competition.

Arakko a big retcon. On excalibur he let twins die because he thought they were weak. he is a psychopath

[Killerbee911]

But is not a valid excuse, Magneto doesnt have 5 years old, .

I was going to answer what you were saying but then I realized this you think Valeria is still 5 years old.Franklin is about 16 now and Valeria about 13 or 14 , I have been putting off reading FF but I think both took a driving test in issue of FF.

My biggest question is will they fight each other again? I kind of hope not and that they team up against a real threat (likely Doom or Sinister).

But I would like to see a fight between Johnny and Bobby without early interruption.

They are going to team up but I don't think that is going to stop the infighting and I don't think when they solve issue they walk are going to walk away better understanding of each other point and happy. But I would love to be wrong

[Zelena]

But is not a valid excuse, Magneto doesnt have 5 years old, this people are not antagonist to the X-Men, it makes 0 sense for him and the rest.

Even with his past, for me this is out of character even with his arrogance, he is not stupid.

Honestly, this makes me dislike team-ups, when it shouldnt be, this miniseries doesnt need drama figths, i would rather see characterization and development.

Hum, agreed… where does this idea come from that Magneto needs to be handle with kid gloves? He has been an adult for a very long time and only recently, his characterization has been simplified. Maybe, it's senility?

it's still canon. he even murdered Susan Storm in this story. defend that Sue fans.

It's hard to come up with something consistent if you take everything in account…

[spirit2011]

I was going to answer what you were saying but then I realized this you think Valeria is still 5 years old.Franklin is about 16 now and Valeria about 13 or 14 , I have been off reading them but I think both took a driving test in issue of FF

Valeria is 9/10, Franklin is 15/16

[Maestroneto]

I'll be honest with you. Mark Waid's and Miller's Dooms are horrible, and counter to his development. Hickman actually wanted to evolve the character.

The fact that everything ultimately reverts and prior character development can be ignored or retconned is a major reason why people would rather get into manga, than comics. You get a consistent story, with consistent character development and characterization. That's why, as interesting as Hickman's new X-Men status quo is, people are put off by the characterizations. Magneto talking the way he's been since HoX/PoX, while cool at times, is off for people who read his recent solo, for instance.

Hickman’s Doom was a cruel dictator who turned Ben into a wall, Johnny into the sun and stole Reed’s family.

[Michael Watkins]

When did those stories portray Doom as a saint? I'm saying you can't develop a character, then have him act like stuff never happened with the next writer. Then you'll have comic fans say the equivalent of "Well, he started off as a villain, so even if not explained, his inexplicable change in character back to a villain after years of development is acceptable. Becuz comics." That's how you have movies about these characters making billions, but comics about them selling 50k copies.

Doom's never made them billions as a movie character. he exists only to be touted as the #1 villain. then people fight their hardest to keep the villain label off of him. he merc'd Cassie Lang without so much as offering an apology. not one day in court. there are monstrous real world individuals who, at least, had the courtesy of pretending to be sorry for their crimes. and it's 100% canon. know how i know? they devoted an annual to a cosmically inverted Doom bringing Cassie back to life.

But hell, since Doom will always be a villain no matter what, Magneto and Sinister will always be murderous psychopaths.

aren't we seeing that play out? Magneto and Sinister haven't changed. the X-men changed. Magneto was considered to be an "evil" mutant because the X-Men labeled themselves "good" mutants. he would have broken bread with them at any point in their history. but they attacked him on Xavier's orders. before he was considered to be a terrorist, he was volunteering at hospitals and hunting nazis. he has remained an individual who, at any point, can hunt a nazi or volunteer to help others. Mister Sinister is someone who started out being obsessed with evolution and continued to be obsessed with evolution. he gets the evil label for what exactly? doing genetic experiments on people? Doctor Doom does genetic experiments on people (ask Sharon Ventura).

[Michael Watkins]

Arakko a big retcon. On excalibur he let twins die because he thought they were weak. he is a psychopath

he's a god. how many people did Doom let die when he was a god?

[spirit2011]

Doom's never made them billions as a movie character. he exists only to be touted as the #1 villain. then people fight their hardest to keep the villain label off of him. he merc'd Cassie Lang without so much as offering an apology. not one day in court. there are monstrous real world individuals who, at least, had the courtesy of pretending to be sorry for their crimes. and it's 100% canon. know how i know? they devoted an annual to a cosmically inverted Doom bringing Cassie back to life.



aren't we seeing that play out? Magneto and Sinister haven't changed. the X-men changed. Magneto was considered to be an "evil" mutant because the X-Men labeled themselves "good" mutants. he would have broken bread with them at any point in their history. but they attacked him on Xavier's orders. before he was considered to be a terrorist, he was volunteering at hospitals and hunting nazis. he has remained an individual who, at any point, can hunt a nazi or volunteer to help others. Mister Sinister is someone who started out being obsessed with evolution and continued to be obsessed with evolution. he gets the evil label for what exactly? doing genetic experiments on people? Doctor Doom does genetic experiments on people (ask Sharon Ventura).

Sinister violates people DNA todo clones, like what he did to Scott and Maddie