X-MEN/FF #1 REVIEW 2.0 (Spoilers)

[PrezValentine]

Like you said. With good intentions. He ultimately saved everyone, while Sinister and Apocalypse would have either done it for laughs or let everyone die.

Sinister built his database for an ultimate good cause too, which was bringing mutants back from the dead. In practice he's already better than Doom, with that logic.

[TooFlyToFail]

That is probably because he's never been outed as a mutant in the Marvel Universe. Do we have proof that the world knows about Franklin having an X-Gene? It looks like he's been shielded from that part of this heritage.

And of course the FFs are apolitical compared to the mutants, they're literally the most privileged family in the MU! They're awfully rich, they're white and beautiful and smart and people do not fear them but view them as celebrities. They're going to have a different take on the whole superpowered debate than mutants, who are pushed to take a more radical approach. The only one who could understand both sides is Ben, even though he's no longer treated as a freak but he must know how it feels (and indeed he was the most reasonable).

I think that Sue overreacted. Calm down, girl, you send the Future Foundation on all kinds of weird missions and you cannot let him have a walk on a Tropical Island? Valeria even lived with freaking Doom!. Then it escalated from there and everyone was fighting, strangely including Ororo who, as a former team member, should have probably been there with Kate when discussing the matter instead of Magneto.

Val living with Doom is incomparable given the context.

Regardless, this issue was poorly written. If they invite the F4 onto Krakoa so they can work together, there is no conflict.

Why couldn't Hickman write this, cuz Chip doesn't seem that invested to try.

[Glio]

As I said before, Reed is always trying to make Doom, Mad Thinker, Wizard and all those become good and use their intelligence for good. Why would he resent Xavier for getting it with Sinister and Apocalypse?

5-year-old Valeria living in Latveria with only Doom supervising her is much worse than 15-year-old Franklin living in Krakoa with Xavier and Magneto being shady but having positive influences like Jean, Nightcrawler or Storm.

The fact that they rely more on their five-year-old daughter's criteria, however superintelligent she is, only shows that they don't trust Franklin. With the best of intentions, I don't doubt it.

[king of hybrids]

That is probably because he's never been outed as a mutant in the Marvel Universe. Do we have proof that the world knows about Franklin having an X-Gene? It looks like he's been shielded from that part of this heritage.

Hasn’t Franklin been known to be a mutant since his face was stuck on any number of in-universe posters advocating registration?

OoU it doesn’t come up because the other IPs really don’t like dancing to the X-books anymore than the X-books do to the main office, IU probably for the same reason no one tried that **** with Namor

[TooFlyToFail]

Doom is the guy who made a magical armor tearing off the skin of the original Valeria. I know that sometimes he can be noble but come on, Valeria was about four or five years old. Why do they respect her opinion more than their 15-year-old son? If I were Franklin, I would feel that it's not that they don't trust Krakoa, it's that they don't trust me.

Why wouldn't they trust him? They take him on missions and has been in the mess so many times. He's just being written as a self-centered, hormonal teenager. You'd think his experiences would give him some nuance.

Val, while 4, was insanely smart and was given consent. Last time I checked, Franklin never showed interest in Krakoa until now. I bet if they trusted Xavier and Magneto, they'd give consent (or at least Reed would). Doom delivered Val, and has basically vowed to be her protector. He lived with them for a time, and sacrificed himself to save their lives. Val is safe with Doom.

Sinister built his database for an ultimate good cause too, which was bringing mutants back from the dead. In practice he's already better than Doom, with that logic.

He did it for himself, while Doom literally had no choice. Again, context matters.

[TooFlyToFail]

Hasn’t Franklin been known to be a mutant since his face was stuck on any number of in-universe posters advocating registration?

OoU it doesn’t come up because the other IPs really don’t like dancing to the X-books anymore than the X-books do to the main office, IU probably for the same reason no one tried that **** with Namor

This is what I thought, too. I thought it was public knowledge, and the anti-mutant supremacists know not to touch the F4.

[Veitha]

Hasn’t Franklin been known to be a mutant since his face was stuck on any number of in-universe posters advocating registration?

OoU it doesn’t come up because the other IPs really don’t like dancing to the X-books anymore than the X-books do to the main office, IU probably for the same reason no one tried that **** with Namor

Oh so people know that he's a mutant? I didn't know that.

Val living with Doom is incomparable given the context.

Regardless, this issue was poorly written. If they invite the F4 onto Krakoa so they can work together, there is no conflict.

Why couldn't Hickman write this, cuz Chip doesn't seem that invested to try.

How? Doom is an egomaniacal supervillain who has done all kinds of terrible things to them and always goes back to his old ways. How can you trust him and not trust Xavier, Ororo or Kate?

I agree that the conflict was weird here. I didn't like how they threw hands at each other so fast.

EDIT: sorry I just saw you answered the context about Doom question. Do we really trust Doom that much? Or do we expect him not to have a certain influence on Valeria? Even Sue got super mad at her in the end for this. Sending a 4 years old to live with her crazy uncle is plain bad parenting.

[Glio]

Valeria moved with Doom shortly after he killed Cassie Lang and yet the 4F approved. He was a recent killer of teenage girls and they let their four-year-old daughter move in with him.

[Crimz]

The Doom and Val thing has always been stupid. I get Reed doing it because he has this fetish for trying to fix Doom, but it made zero sense for Sue to agree. It was the most ooc thing to ever happen to her tbh.
So much so that another run had Sue mention how stupid it was when she went to get Val back.

[Killerbee911]

I will admit that appropriate was the wrong word to use, but this discussion seems to have left its original focus at this point. I think Sue's actions made sense considering what Magneto was implying. Was it wrong of her? Sure, but Magneto should have picked his words better. On that it seems we'll have to agree to disagree and that's fine. If everyone agreed with the F4, then that would mean there's a problem. It really is a run of the mill hero v. hero fight.

In story where people are pointing to X-men as the "villians"or "Bad guys". It is reasonable to point out who is the aggressor in the situation and it wasn't the X-men. We aren't really disagreeing they are certain things that are "wrong" and most people will be fine it. Every time I see a Nazi/White supremacist get punched I am fine with it, I am perfectly fine with any reaction that is in the protection of your family. That doesn't mean it is right and that doesn't mean person can't be one the at fault even if they are doing most people think is generally accept thing. You run up and punch a Nazi you are going to jail for assault, You punch a person for calling you a n-word you are going to jail for assault. Sue was wrong to attack Magneto and she escalated the situation into something where it got out of control. She is the rational adult. Magneto was just being Magneto. Which brings us back to point I can't bring up enough. Why is Magneto there

1. HoX 1- Magneto acting as Krakoa ambassador in Xavier place and has the power to speak for Krakoa
2. X-men 4(I believe). Magneto,Apocc and Xavier are representative of Krakoa, Magneto the power to speak for Krakoa
3. X-men/FF Magneto is brought along as an ambassador to convince the Richards to hand over their son

Why do they keep putting Magneto out there like he isn't going to make things worse. I mean scenario two Krakoa was supposed be showing big dick energy but Mags was so over the top that he made genocidal blue guy for sake of balance look like the more reasonable one. Now I get narratively why this keeps happening Magneto gives great super villain speeches but they are literally 100s of mutants now who are better option to bring along than Magneto. Jean Grey and Nightcrawler are on the freaking council as well you can't sell me that Kurt wasn't a better option than Magneto. Heck Exodus would probably be better choice than Mags.

Can writers please stop putting Magneto on diplomatic missions. Magneto is the easy way out and because avoids making fan favorites saying difficulting things(like implying a child is better with them than their parents) but this is 100% more compelling story if it is Storm or Kitty saying the reasoning for Franklin coming to Krakoa and offending Sue parenting. They had a chance to ding Fantastic Four on a legit point their naiveness of Franklin fitting in normally but it was bloody Magneto saying the line and being such an a-hole that it was pointless. This should've been an argument for embracing his sub culture, education of Franklin comfortable environment(X-men is built on the school concept) and medical aspect of fixing his powers and there are high school intelligent gifted children and sports stars get pitches like this all the time where parents are told it is better for kids future for them to in environment around their peers to excel and be well rounded away from the parents in a boarding school. The Richards started Future Foundation again I believe to have Franklin and Valeria around peers so there is a legit argument for Franklin being in a school environment where he is comfortable AND oh yeah we have the best mutants doctors as well. I think it is better story if the Richards have to legit consider if Franklin staying with them is better or Krakoa better option for him to be happy and well adjusted person. It times like this that I hate the superhero genre is so much about action and fighting. But that said the story was still pretty good.

PS- If your answer me with Reed is the smartest man on earth stuff and he can fix Franklin and teach him better than anyone else then you are making the point Franklin made in the book. And also you are embracing what makes Reed Richards a bad character at times because it means he is too good at things which makes for boring stories. If Reed is literally better than any and all scientist out there then he is at fault not fixing things let the man have limits. Hank(with Sinister,Dr Nemesis) being better at Mutant Genetics ,Tony being better at Robotics,etc that doesn't hurt Reed and helps in story like this one.

[PrezValentine]

Why wouldn't they trust him? They take him on missions and has been in the mess so many times. He's just being written as a self-centered, hormonal teenager. You'd think his experiences would give him some nuance.

Val, while 4, was insanely smart and was given consent. Last time I checked, Franklin never showed interest in Krakoa until now. I bet if they trusted Xavier and Magneto, they'd give consent (or at least Reed would). Doom delivered Val, and has basically vowed to be her protector. He lived with them for a time, and sacrificed himself to save their lives. Val is safe with Doom.



He did it for himself, while Doom literally had no choice. Again, context matters.

But we're not talking about motivation. Humans, as a rule, do things to benefit themselves before other people or the environment they live in. This is irrelevant to the "why would Reed and Sue be concerned with Krakoa after leaving Val with Doom?". They left Val with a man with a multiversal body count. The fact that he did for good reasons doesn't change that. I'm a big fan of the trope of characters doing shady/bad things for the greater good, but I don't try to paint it with a nice coat. Doom did bad things, so did Sinister, Apocalypse, Exodus and Reed Richards himself, not always with the best motivations in mind. So the whole debate of "who's better", morally speaking, is irrelevant.

[king of hybrids]

Oh so people know that he's a mutant? I didn't know that.

Back from the OG registration stuff
Mutant_Reg_Ad.JPG

Everyone’s known Franklin’s a mutant, but for various reasons none of the usual suspects have dared

[TooFlyToFail]

But we're not talking about motivation. Humans, as a rule, do things to benefit themselves before other people or the environment they live in. This is irrelevant to the "why would Reed and Sue be concerned with Krakoa after leaving Val with Doom?". They left Val with a man with a multiversal body count. The fact that he did for good reasons doesn't change that. I'm a big fan of the trope of characters doing shady/bad things for the greater good, but I don't try to paint it with a nice coat. Doom did bad things, so did Sinister, Apocalypse, Exodus and Reed Richards himself, not always with the best motivations in mind. So the whole debate of "who's better", morally speaking, is irrelevant.

You're right. Who's morally better is irrelevant, and not my point. The point is that the F4 trust Doom with their child more because (when written consistently) he will die to keep Val safe if it came to it, cuz she's the closest thing to family he's got and he values her to the point changing how he acts around other (to an extent). Even if Doom is insanely dangerous, they know that danger he poses will be turned on anything that puts Val in danger.

The X-Men have freaking Sinister and Apocalypse making government decisions. Like come on. You think Reed wants Sinister getting his son's DNA? He doesn't trust them around his children, the way he knows Doom will treat Val like a spoiled niece.

Again, all that had to be done was have Ororo and Kate invite the F4 to Krakoa to help work on Franklin together and convince them that Krakoa is safe for their son. Didn't Xavier use to let families take tours of the school, before they let their children stay there? It's the same concept, here.

[Sutekh]

So when is this supposed to be set, anyway?

AFAIK, Kitty is (presumed) dead, at the moment, over in Marauders, and Pyro has had a skull tattoo on his face for at least four issues now, and yet in his three facing-forward appearances in FFvX, he's got no tattoo.

Is it set before the tattoo and Kitty (presumptive) drownination? Or after (with said tattoo having been removed for some reason, and Kitty being either resurrected or having survived the presumptive death)?

Or the tattoo thing could just be the artist not doing the research. Kitty's not wearing her Marauders garb, with the red scarf and bare hands to show off *her* new tats, as well.

[hulkling]

So when is this supposed to be set, anyway?

AFAIK, Kitty is (presumed) dead, at the moment, over in Marauders, and Pyro has had a skull tattoo on his face for at least four issues now, and yet in his three facing-forward appearances in FFvX, he's got no tattoo.

Is it set before the tattoo and Kitty (presumptive) drownination? Or after (with said tattoo having been removed for some reason, and Kitty being either resurrected or having survived the presumptive death)?

Or the tattoo thing could just be the artist not doing the research. Kitty's not wearing her Marauders garb, with the red scarf and bare hands to show off *her* new tats, as well.

I think is clearly before. This must be between the war of the realms and the current arc of the FF . Because the beginning of the Empyre event shows Franklin still in New York the same month that this series end. And it looks like the current arc with kitty missing will be long.