Giant Size X-Men Fantomex

[ARkadelphia]

It’s just because Giant Sized X-Men is a name for a one shot that has cache in the franchise.

Thanks. I wasn’t literally confused. Just making the point that they’re not much bigger than a regular issue.

[BroHomo]

how about giant sized monet uh????

ooooh that would be good

orr Giant sized GENERATION X showing Skin Synch reuniting with the others

10 characters

hahaha yes! although i've been wrong with my prejudgments on HOX era books soo who knows

[H-E-D]

Because it contradicted the intentions of the original writer.

Contradicting the intentions of the original author does not necessarily mean the original author was misunderstood. They could have understood it and disregarded it.

[Technopriest]

Contradicting the intentions of the original author does not necessarily mean the original author was misunderstood. They could have understood it and disregarded it.

With Remender is not just one detail, is a lot of aspects of the character. Disregarding aspects like the mansion and the mother are not supposed to be real fundamentally changes the character, same with giving him a background with Mystique does, like Vaughn did. I truly believe this to be a result of the editors simply not understanding Morrison stories and just letting writers do what they wanted. In Remender case, I don’t see how he can read that issue and go, “ you know what, I am going to make both his mansion and his mother real just because”, and at least not misunderstand very basic aspects of the character.

[Technopriest]

Well, in any case I wonder if Hickman will go full on Morrison with the character, or if he’ll try to incorporate the later histories as well. The whole 3 clones was only pick up in Uncanny X-Force and then almost immediately dropped, with a quick explanation that Fanto had reincorporated all 3 aspects back into one being or some such (I don’t even know how that would work).

[spirit2011]

With Remender is not just one detail, is a lot of aspects of the character. Disregarding aspects like the mansion and the mother are not supposed to be real fundamentally changes the character, same with giving him a background with Mystique does, like Vaughn did. I truly believe this to be a result of the editors simply not understanding Morrison stories and just letting writers do what they wanted. In Remender case, I don’t see how he can read that issue and go, “ you know what, I am going to make both his mansion and his mother real just because”, and at least not misunderstand very basic aspects of the character.

Who knows? Really often writers don't follow on Morrison work for many reasons

[Technopriest]

Who knows? Really often writers don't follow on Morrison work for many reasons

Yes, and I believe often is a lack of understanding of what was originally intended. The fact that Fantomex was NOT an active French thief before his awakening in his origin issue, and that the character himself tells Jean that EVERYTHING that he told and showed her was a lie, and that she and the professor discovered his pod in the same issue as they did Weapon XII, demonstrate to me that there was a lack of understanding of what the character was fundamentally about. It doesn't matter anymore as whatever was added is canon now, but it still contradicts what Morrison wrote on the page. I am actually a big fan of Remender's X-Force run, but I am not a fan of his version of Fantomex, same with Vaughan (or was it Mckeever). I truly believe that other writers understood the concept better, and I hope to never see Cluster and Jean Philipe as individual characters again.

[H-E-D]

If Fantomex had already been given a history in the Mystique series, it seems strange to critique Remender for writing him like he had one.

[Technopriest]

If Fantomex had already been given a history in the Mystique series, it seems strange to critique Remender for writing him like he had one.

Yeah, that was a screw up there because Fanto wasn't supposed to have one (in this specific case a past with Mystique). And I am not criticizing Remender, just pointing that both him and Vaughan put stuff in their runs that directly contradicted what Morrison had established. In the case of Remender it wasn't an established previous history, it was treating both his mother and mansion as real, as well as the whole 3 personalities deal. The thing with the 3 independent personalities I didn't like, but at least there was enough wiggle room there to go in that direction. The other 2 just doesn't work with the character (why would Fantomex even need a mother? He was created inside the world) and the fact that he never really explained these changes (if it was a recon, treated as such and explained how they exist now), but we didn't even get that. The fact that Remender wanted to use Fanto's mother being sick as an excuse for him joining the X-Men in his aborted run tells me that he really get that concept. Anyways, is not important, and sincerely after Uncanny X-Force has been ignored anyways.

[spirit2011]

Yes, and I believe often is a lack of understanding of what was originally intended. The fact that Fantomex was NOT an active French thief before his awakening in his origin issue, and that the character himself tells Jean that EVERYTHING that he told and showed her was a lie, and that she and the professor discovered his pod in the same issue as they did Weapon XII, demonstrate to me that there was a lack of understanding of what the character was fundamentally about. It doesn't matter anymore as whatever was added is canon now, but it still contradicts what Morrison wrote on the page. I am actually a big fan of Remender's X-Force run, but I am not a fan of his version of Fantomex, same with Vaughan (or was it Mckeever). I truly believe that other writers understood the concept better, and I hope to never see Cluster and Jean Philipe as individual characters again.

I can understand remender doing the 3 brains being different personas, it doesn't retcon Morrison at all just add a new development.

It was pretty clear that it was all a lie, It is hard to believe there was a confusion. Maybe they just wanted more to add for the character too, but it completely blows Morrison work

[Technopriest]

I can understand remender doing the 3 brains being different personas, it doesn't retcon Morrison at all just add a new development.

It was pretty clear that it was all a lie, It is hard to believe there was a confusion. Maybe they just wanted more to add for the character too, but it completely blows Morrison work

It is a retcon since it does change something established for the character early on, but I agree that it doesn't necessarily contradict what was established for him.
The rest though, is pretty contradictory and it's weird because is presented pretty clearly in the issue. In fact, is an important piece of development for the character because he is able to fool two of the most powerful telepaths in the world. By changing that you are fundamentally changing both origin and the extent of his abilities. It also doesn't make sense because the character doesn't need a mother, since he is pretty much a test tube baby. There were ways to do a retcon there if they really wanted to give those things to Fanto, but Remender just goes directly into him having both the Mansion and the mother as presented in that issue of New X-Men (which we know to be a lie, is presented clearly on the page in that same issue). I also wonder if Hickman will touch on that development or just ignore it completely and go for what Morrison established, since the later writers after Uncanny X-Force ignored pretty much everything from Remender's run (was it even explained how Fanomex fused all three personalities again?).

[gambitxremy]

https://youtu.be/sbxLDXodrOg

This has a great theory on the world