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  1. #61
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    He usually does actually.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    The closest he's done was after Heroes in Crisis, when he did pay a visit to Jason. And it was actually great. But since I started reading comics, during the New 52, it's the only time I can think off when he did so.

    Bruce's character is so stuck into the characterization of the stoic, silent, brooding man, that it has become toxic for the character itself. I can't wait to see him stop being Batman, in the main comics, because he's just an all around horrible person, and that's a problem.

  3. #63
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    The very first big Batman arc of the new 52 ended with him apologizing, reflecting on his actions and his relationship with Dick. And then in Forever Evil he apologizes to him. I’m still not sure what he did to them in King’s run. There was the Tim punch, but that was apparently a convoluted staged ploy.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-17-2020 at 03:12 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Yes all the other times, not that bad. The tooth punch was probably the worst due to how unnecessary it was. Stop pretending like they are that common, or exist in a vacuum where Dick hasnít snapped on him. Your using out of context moments to paint Bruce as something heís not. Dude saves the world on regular basis, he saved Dick from a meaningless life on the streets as a insufferable hobo. Yelling at a Robin from time to time, or even whacking one of them at times when heís been driven to the brink, is not that bad.
    The Robins can F off if they have been treated so poorly and abused. He doesnít own them, heís not forcing them to be around him. Dick stays around the man cause he loves him. He was there for Dick when he lost everything. He gave him purpose, love, and continual unconditional support. Heís not an awful guy like your trying to present him as. For every bad moment, there are 10x as many good ones. For every flaw, there is genuine goodness and selflessness. Letís put things into some perspective here.
    The tooth punch wasn't the worst of it. That would be what happened after Forever Evil where, after Dick was recovering from being tortured and unmasked on live t.v., he beat the crap out of him and guilted him into going undercover in Spiral having faked his death for him without his consent.

    The excuse of "Dick snapped at him" would be laughable if it weren't so repulsive. 1) it presumes that Dick isn't snapping at Bruce for something he actually deserves to be called out on and 2) if your response to someone "snapping at you" is to hit them it doesn't speak well of your ability to control your temper. By your logic, Bruce is due for more than a few beatdowns given how venomous he can be to others.

  5. #65
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    "Being mean" would be putting it kindly. Tony was "being mean" to Peter in Homecoming. Bruce is about the worst parent in the DCU that isn't an outright super villain.



    Next time you all think Frank Miller is the only one to have portrayed Bruce as abusive to the Robins just remember this scene.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but if I remember well Bruce tried to convince Jason to desist from become Robin, but he was unmoving so Bruce accepted him like Robin and Jason died just because he started a mission to search his mother, even if Bruce told him he wasn't ready. So is who the abusive character, the one who blames Bruce for Jason's dead in a very underhand manner, or Bruce who doesn't accept to be blamed? So I think that panel isn't the best one to prove Batman is an abusive character.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    Maybe I'm wrong, but if I remember well Bruce tried to convince Jason to desist from become Robin, but he was unmoving so Bruce accepted him like Robin and Jason died just because he started a mission to search his mother, even if Bruce told him he wasn't ready. So is who the abusive character, the one who blames Bruce for Jason's dead in a very underhand manner, or Bruce who doesn't accept to be blamed? So I think that panel isn't the best one to prove Batman is an abusive character.
    Common sense says the one punching the other for saying something they don't is the abusive one.

    Also, Dick was trying to be empathetic when Bruce was acting more and more like an ass.

  7. #67
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Common sense says that to impose your presence to a person who want be alone and blame him for having do something he actually tried to avoid can exasperate that person, so who is the abusive character: the one who ask to be left alone or the one who impose his empathetic presence and then blame the other one for a thing he actually tried to avoid?
    I can agree with you: in that period Bruce wasn't acting like a sane person, but it seems to me that page isn't the right example to prove he is an abusive character.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-17-2020 at 04:29 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    Common sense says that to impose your presence to a person who want be alone and blame him for having do something he actually tried to avoid can exasperate that person, so who is the abusive character: the one who ask to be left alone or the one who impose his empathetic presence and then blame the other one for a thing he actually tried to avoid?
    The normal response to someone being there that you don't want there is to tell them to leave. Calling Dick the abusive one is the definition of victim blaming when taking into account Bruce is bigger, older and stronger (btw Bruce implying that Jason was the one at fault for his own injuries is also an asshole move and Dick was right to call him out on his callousness).

    Also, Jason was the only Robin who was actually given the role by Bruce. Dick created the identity, Tim and Steph both wanted to be Robin and the We Are Robin kids were running around in Robin inspired costumes without Bruce's approval. So yeah, Dick is right to ask why Bruce made Jason a Robin when he felt he wasn't ready.

    Superman took Bruce's comment that "the last time you inspired someone was when you died" without popping his head like a pimple so I don't get why you and godlike13 are contorting yourself in knots to defend Bruce in that image, let alone acting like Dick is the one at fault.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-17-2020 at 04:35 AM.

  9. #69
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    I could say: ęThe normal response to a person who don't want talk to you, is leave him aloneĽ, but I don't think it would be the right reply, because I would miss my point, so I will replay in another way: in my humble opinion you choose the wrong example to prove your point, or at least you should give us the references (the title of the book and the number of the story) in order to verify if my interpretation is or isn't wrong; like I already have suggest you. For now we are only seeing an out of context example, which can be interpreted in two different ways and the correctness of those interpretations depends exclusively by subjective considerations.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-17-2020 at 05:22 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I could say: ęThe normal response to a person who don't want talk to you, is leave him aloneĽ, but I don't think it would be the right reply, because I would miss my point, so I will replay in another way: in my humble opinion you choose the wrong example to prove your point, or at least you should give us the references (the title of the book and the number of the story) in order to verify if my interpretation is or isn't wrong; like I already have suggest you. For now we are only seeing an out of context example, which can be interpreted in two different ways and the correctness of those interpretations depends exclusively by subjective considerations.
    I cannot see how much more context you'd need to see how Bruce is in the wrong, let alone that Dick is not the abusive one, but fine. It's from New Teen Titans #55.

    And here is the next page if you still think Bruce is the victim here.


  11. #71
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Thank you.
    I could still say: Bruce is acting like a person racked by pain and who want be alone and this dispute would never end. So my reply instead is that in Batman 438/439 Bruce and Dick had a very similar confrontation, where Dick told to Bruce (I quote): ęSince Jason was killed, you have been acting insane. You have been bludgeoning criminal instead of interrogating them. Hell, you nearly let on of them die, locked away in a subway tunnel!Ľ and how did Bruce reply? He apologized!
    Can an abusive character apologize for his behavior?
    Watch out! Even if Batman 438/439 was published about three months later New Teen Titans 55 and it was written by the same author (Mark Wolfman), Dick and Bruce didn't act like it was a second confrontation, they act like if the confrontation in New Teen Titans 55 were never happened.
    Therefore is who the "true Bruce": the abusive one of New Titan 55 or the one in dismayed of Batman 438/439?
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-17-2020 at 07:32 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    Thank you.
    I could still say: Bruce is acting like a person racked by pain and who want be alone and this dispute would never end. So my reply instead is that in Batman 438/439 Bruce and Dick had a very similar confrontation, where Dick told to Bruce (I quote): ęSince Jason was killed, you have been acting insane. You have been bludgeoning criminal instead of interrogating them. Hell, you nearly let on of them die, locked away in a subway tunnel!Ľ and how did Bruce reply? He apologized!
    Can an abusive character apologize for his behavior?
    Watch out! Even if Batman 438/439 was published about three months later New Teen Titans 55 and it was written by the same author (Mark Wolfman), Dick and Bruce didn't act like it was a second confrontation, they act like if the confrontation in New Teen Titans 55 were never happened.
    Therefore is who the "true Bruce": the abusive one of New Titan 55 or the one in dismayed of Batman 438/439?
    Of course an abusive person can apologise. It doesn't mean they weren't abusive otherwise what would they be apologising for? The question of "who is the true Bruce" is wrong in premise because it assumes Bruce's situational niceness negates his abuse.

  13. #73
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    No, the premise of my question is: if the same author can change radically the behavior of a character and his interaction with the others, according to the story he want tell, even if that means contradict what he wrote three months earlier, can we say: ęMy interpretation of the character is the right oneĽ?
    I think in some stories Bruce Wayne (or Batman) acted like the good person (or a true hero) he was meant to be, in others acted like a victim of a post traumatic stress disorder (it can happens if he had some trauma like it was the Jason's death) and in others stories yet he acted like a sociopath and often these interpretations of the character contradict each others.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    When you have shot and/or stabbed most of the Bat family, you donít get to cry victim.


    Uh, no. You kind of missed my point, I think.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The tooth punch wasn't the worst of it. That would be what happened after Forever Evil where, after Dick was recovering from being tortured and unmasked on live t.v., he beat the crap out of him and guilted him into going undercover in Spiral having faked his death for him without his consent.

    The excuse of "Dick snapped at him" would be laughable if it weren't so repulsive. 1) it presumes that Dick isn't snapping at Bruce for something he actually deserves to be called out on and 2) if your response to someone "snapping at you" is to hit them it doesn't speak well of your ability to control your temper. By your logic, Bruce is due for more than a few beatdowns given how venomous he can be to others.
    I guess that is one way of misrepresenting Nightwing 30. Which was actually a rather sweet issue between the two. That right there is a perfect example of what im talking about.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-17-2020 at 10:27 AM.

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