Is Batman’s need to control a flaw of his ?

[Cmbmool]

After reading this article on CBR: https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-j...leader-batman/, I was thinking about the fact that Batman is a control freak of a hero. I mean his paranoia against other heroes, his disrespect to authority figures and yet whenever his plans backfired on him and those around him: Has he ever apologized to anyone over this ?

I mean Omac Project and Tower of Babel comes to mind. One could say the events of Identity Crisis give him goo reasons to not trust heroes, but even he takes his need to control the situation too far. Right ?

Which brings me to my original question: Do you think Batman’s need to control is a flaw of his or not ?

As Batman fans: Where do you fall within this question ?

[Tzigone]

Yes, absolutely, it's flaw. It makes him either treat others (family, friends, colleagues) as puppets or get petulant when they refuse to act as such. He has little regard for what others want, even in regards to their own lives. He too often expects absolute, unquestioning obedience. It's a fairly big part of how he's emotionally abusive to his kids, at least the older ones.

And I actually think the worst part of it is him being "justified" (Identity Crisis, etc.). I feel like other characters are made to act out of character or be diminished in terms or morality or competency to justify those behaviors of Batman's. Diminished to put him further on pedestal or further prop him up as best hero. Don't like that.

[Blue22]

Which brings me to my original question: Do you think Batman’s need to control is a flaw of his or not ?

Well it certainly isn't a positive quality. Just look at how often his compulsive need to control things and always be the one in the right blows up in his face, gets used against him, and destroys his relationships with his friends and family.

And getting him to apologize for his own shortcomings is like pulling teeth. Especially when they go through a bunch of bullshit to make it so he was right or that he always had control of the situation the entire time (Lookin' DIRECTLY at you, King's Batman)

[SixSpeedSamurai]

At this point it's so overused, I find it lazy when a writer uses it to cause friction between Batman and others.

[Ascended]

Yes, absolutely, it's flaw. It makes him either treat others (family, friends, colleagues) as puppets or get petulant when they refuse to act as such. He has little regard for what others want, even in regards to their own lives. He too often expects absolute, unquestioning obedience. It's a fairly big part of how he's emotionally abusive to his kids, at least the older ones.

And I actually think the worst part of it is him being "justified" (Identity Crisis, etc.). I feel like other characters are made to act out of character or be diminished in terms or morality or competency to justify those behaviors of Batman's. Diminished to put him further on pedestal or further prop him up as best hero. Don't like that.

All of this. It is a huge flaw in his personality. Maybe even his biggest one, though there's a few competing for that dubious honor.

That's not to say I want him to *not* be a control freak. I like my heroes to have flaws. Even Superman has flaws (so, so many flaws). I'd be happy if this particular flaw was turned down some though, it feels like Bruce's asshat-ery has reached whole new levels....I mean, he's responsible for Metal because he didn't want to share, and that ended up breaking the multiverse.....Barry's role in creating the New52 is nothing compared to what Bruce has done. Not to mention Brother Eye, Babel, and whatever else. So I'd be cool if Batman could pull his head out of his ass a little bit. But I don't need or want this flaw to go away completely, either.

It'd be nice if Diana and Clark showed up to slap him for his actions though. Someone needs to hold the Bat accountable.

[godisawesome]

At this point it's so overused, I find it lazy when a writer uses it to cause friction between Batman and others.

I largely agree. I like it as a flaw... but having him actually succumb to it totally needs to be done sparingly.

Like, having Tower of Babel, OMAC/Brother Eye, and War Games all happen shortly after each other is a poor setup, even though they’re all different in terms of his culpability and the catalysts setting them off.

OMAC always felt like the step too far to me. It’s way to close to just being big brother. The other two could make sense as just being his wargames scenarios that he keeps too close to his chest.

This flaw would probably work better in, say, a TV show or movie series where it could be used sparingly, and you could unfurl consequences that “last,” because, ironically, the show or movie would have a finite storytelling time, so him suffering consequences would take up more time.

The way Young Justice handled his Anti-Light Conspiracy, and the way it handled him knowing more about the team’s backstories than he let on in Season 1, are both pretty good takes on the idea. Bruce is clearly a little paranoid, and takes big risks that display his control issues... but both show him taking in confidantes and dealing with some kind of fallout.

[Celgress]

I would say so, yes. It is his biggest flaw. His second biggest flaw is expecting the best from everyone at all times, for them to push themselves as hard as he does.

[gregpersons]

It's a double-edged sword. His need for control is his biggest flaw, and his greatest strength.

[millernumber1]

It's a double-edged sword. His need for control is his biggest flaw, and his greatest strength.

Exactly. Without the control, the discipline of himself and his knowledge of his city and teams, he's not effective. But it also creates a ton of its own problems. So I don't think it's a simple yes or no answer - it's both.

[Scott Taylor]

Identity Crisis isn't the best example of how Batman uses control. That whole thing wasn't about anything other than setting the scene for Infinite Crisis and the big bad of Superboy Prime to reunite them. The story was interesting but really did not do Batman any favors and the notion of Batman always being in opposition to the other heroes, having kryptonite around 'just-in-case.' etc. is against the way Batman has been portrayed most of his comic book life.

Batman shouldn't be paranoid or obsessive-compulsive, or lack the ability to trust others, as he sometimes gets portrayed. He's a hero and should get along with other heroes. Control is a big tool of his because he has no superpowers, so he has to go to greater lengths to survive the rigors of being a normal human in a super-powered world. Thats pretty much it. Its not a flaw, its pretty much just the mental part of his martial arts training.

At least ... thats how things should be.

[lucius121]

One of the major reason why the Joker makes such a perfect foil for Batman is the Joker's need for chaos. Each of them uses fear to achieve his goal, and the Joker's obsession is to force Batman to loose control.

[Nite-Wing]

It's Bruce's best "power"
He needs to plan and look for weaknesses in everything including himself
His morality is never in question because his willpower and commitment to being a force for good will never waver

Other heroes like Hal or Barry have less leeway because they have powers and when they use them to commit actions that hurt other people it shows how their emotions lead them astray
Bruce never does things like that. People take advantage of him but he is never going to willfully harm any of his friends just because he's selfish. Its always for the greater good

[Jackalope89]

It's Bruce's best "power"
He needs to plan and look for weaknesses in everything including himself
His morality is never in question because his willpower and commitment to being a force for good will never waver

Other heroes like Hal or Barry have less leeway because they have powers and when they use them to commit actions that hurt other people it shows how their emotions lead them astray
Bruce never does things like that. People take advantage of him but he is never going to willfully harm any of his friends just because he's selfish. Its always for the greater good

Later on, it was shown that Jason shot Penguin with a blank. Rather then trust Jason, Bruce went out of his way to knock him senseless. It took interference from first, Bizarro and later, Roy (sneak attack) to rescue Jason. And it took months for Jason to move without being in constant pain.

[Mistah K88]

Identity Crisis isn't the best example of how Batman uses control. That whole thing wasn't about anything other than setting the scene for Infinite Crisis and the big bad of Superboy Prime to reunite them. The story was interesting but really did not do Batman any favors and the notion of Batman always being in opposition to the other heroes, having kryptonite around 'just-in-case.' etc. is against the way Batman has been portrayed most of his comic book life.

Batman shouldn't be paranoid or obsessive-compulsive, or lack the ability to trust others, as he sometimes gets portrayed. He's a hero and should get along with other heroes. Control is a big tool of his because he has no superpowers, so he has to go to greater lengths to survive the rigors of being a normal human in a super-powered world. Thats pretty much it. Its not a flaw, its pretty much just the mental part of his martial arts training.

At least ... thats how things should be.

Agreed, I think often times people write Batman to be such a control freak that he has nothing but disdain for his allies/friends to the point of being paranoid enough to secretly plan to neutralize people he is supposed to trust, yet has trouble doing the same for criminals that have shown that they will be continuous repeat offenders.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Later on, it was shown that Jason shot Penguin with a blank. Rather then trust Jason, Bruce went out of his way to knock him senseless. It took interference from first, Bizarro and later, Roy (sneak attack) to rescue Jason. And it took months for Jason to move without being in constant pain.

Call me a sadist, but I loved seeing Bruce beat the tar out of Jason.