Is Batman’s need to control a flaw of his ?

[Cmbmool]

After reading this article on CBR: https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-j...leader-batman/, I was thinking about the fact that Batman is a control freak of a hero. I mean his paranoia against other heroes, his disrespect to authority figures and yet whenever his plans backfired on him and those around him: Has he ever apologized to anyone over this ?

I mean Omac Project and Tower of Babel comes to mind. One could say the events of Identity Crisis give him goo reasons to not trust heroes, but even he takes his need to control the situation too far. Right ?

Which brings me to my original question: Do you think Batman’s need to control is a flaw of his or not ?

As Batman fans: Where do you fall within this question ?

[Tzigone]

Yes, absolutely, it's flaw. It makes him either treat others (family, friends, colleagues) as puppets or get petulant when they refuse to act as such. He has little regard for what others want, even in regards to their own lives. He too often expects absolute, unquestioning obedience. It's a fairly big part of how he's emotionally abusive to his kids, at least the older ones.

And I actually think the worst part of it is him being "justified" (Identity Crisis, etc.). I feel like other characters are made to act out of character or be diminished in terms or morality or competency to justify those behaviors of Batman's. Diminished to put him further on pedestal or further prop him up as best hero. Don't like that.

[Ascended]

Yes, absolutely, it's flaw. It makes him either treat others (family, friends, colleagues) as puppets or get petulant when they refuse to act as such. He has little regard for what others want, even in regards to their own lives. He too often expects absolute, unquestioning obedience. It's a fairly big part of how he's emotionally abusive to his kids, at least the older ones.

And I actually think the worst part of it is him being "justified" (Identity Crisis, etc.). I feel like other characters are made to act out of character or be diminished in terms or morality or competency to justify those behaviors of Batman's. Diminished to put him further on pedestal or further prop him up as best hero. Don't like that.

All of this. It is a huge flaw in his personality. Maybe even his biggest one, though there's a few competing for that dubious honor.

That's not to say I want him to *not* be a control freak. I like my heroes to have flaws. Even Superman has flaws (so, so many flaws). I'd be happy if this particular flaw was turned down some though, it feels like Bruce's asshat-ery has reached whole new levels....I mean, he's responsible for Metal because he didn't want to share, and that ended up breaking the multiverse.....Barry's role in creating the New52 is nothing compared to what Bruce has done. Not to mention Brother Eye, Babel, and whatever else. So I'd be cool if Batman could pull his head out of his ass a little bit. But I don't need or want this flaw to go away completely, either.

It'd be nice if Diana and Clark showed up to slap him for his actions though. Someone needs to hold the Bat accountable.

[Blue22]

Which brings me to my original question: Do you think Batman’s need to control is a flaw of his or not ?

Well it certainly isn't a positive quality. Just look at how often his compulsive need to control things and always be the one in the right blows up in his face, gets used against him, and destroys his relationships with his friends and family.

And getting him to apologize for his own shortcomings is like pulling teeth. Especially when they go through a bunch of bullshit to make it so he was right or that he always had control of the situation the entire time (Lookin' DIRECTLY at you, King's Batman)

[SixSpeedSamurai]

At this point it's so overused, I find it lazy when a writer uses it to cause friction between Batman and others.

[godisawesome]

At this point it's so overused, I find it lazy when a writer uses it to cause friction between Batman and others.

I largely agree. I like it as a flaw... but having him actually succumb to it totally needs to be done sparingly.

Like, having Tower of Babel, OMAC/Brother Eye, and War Games all happen shortly after each other is a poor setup, even though they’re all different in terms of his culpability and the catalysts setting them off.

OMAC always felt like the step too far to me. It’s way to close to just being big brother. The other two could make sense as just being his wargames scenarios that he keeps too close to his chest.

This flaw would probably work better in, say, a TV show or movie series where it could be used sparingly, and you could unfurl consequences that “last,” because, ironically, the show or movie would have a finite storytelling time, so him suffering consequences would take up more time.

The way Young Justice handled his Anti-Light Conspiracy, and the way it handled him knowing more about the team’s backstories than he let on in Season 1, are both pretty good takes on the idea. Bruce is clearly a little paranoid, and takes big risks that display his control issues... but both show him taking in confidantes and dealing with some kind of fallout.

[Celgress]

I would say so, yes. It is his biggest flaw. His second biggest flaw is expecting the best from everyone at all times, for them to push themselves as hard as he does.

[gregpersons]

It's a double-edged sword. His need for control is his biggest flaw, and his greatest strength.

[Restingvoice]

After reading this article on CBR: https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-j...leader-batman/, I was thinking about the fact that Batman is a control freak of a hero. I mean his paranoia against other heroes, his disrespect to authority figures and yet whenever his plans backfired on him and those around him: Has he ever apologized to anyone over this ?

I mean Omac Project and Tower of Babel comes to mind. One could say the events of Identity Crisis give him goo reasons to not trust heroes, but even he takes his need to control the situation too far. Right ?

Which brings me to my original question: Do you think Batman’s need to control is a flaw of his or not ?

As Batman fans: Where do you fall within this question ?

Bruce? Apologize? HAH! The kids need to almost die first before he'd do that.

That's canon, by the way.

In the JL themselves, Superman's kinda already sighed in resignation, Barry's the peacekeeper, Arthur's staying out of it, and Diana prefers to act so unless there's actual damage she's just gonna let Batman be Batman.

Hal's the only one with the energy to fight him.

That said, when it comes to Batman's paranoia, recent stories has proven he's more right than wrong. The number of times the JL got brainwashed necessitates his plan.

So before calling out on Bruce's behavior or changing it, they need to stop treating JL like a hypocritical time bomb.

Bruce Wayne is a fictional character. You have hundreds of writers that each comes to the character with their own take on his personality. Is he psychologically damaged or is he well-adjusted? Is he abusive or is he kind? Is he narcissistic or compassionate? Is he a control freak or even-handed? There is no one answer that is right--not anymore, after so many different stories about the guy (maybe once upon a long ago when there was only one main writer, but not now).

These kinds of questions drive me batty because they attempt to impose a consistent vision of the character on what is necessarily inconsistent. In some stories, Batman has a need to control and in some of those stories that is a flaw of his. It's better to discuss specific cases--because then you have one writer and one story that can be examined and interpreted.

If they want to sell these stories as a part of one big story under one Universe, then they need to be consistent.

[Jim Kelly]

If they want to sell these stories as a part of one big story under one Universe, then they need to be consistent.

I think in a shared universe that's the one area where writers should be allowed some wiggle room. To make everything fit in the same universe, they have to be true to the broad strokes--timelines, physics, established cast of characters. But writers need some artistic freedom to put their own mark on the work. So things like the inner psychology of the characters are matters of interpretation. That's akin to the comic artwork--each artist should get certain details right; however, each artist ought to be free to interpret the characters in their own distinctive style.

[Restingvoice]

I think in a shared universe that's the one area where writers should be allowed some wiggle room. To make everything fit in the same universe, they have to be true to the broad strokes--timelines, physics, established cast of characters. But writers need some artistic freedom to put their own mark on the work. So things like the inner psychology of the characters are matters of interpretation. That's akin to the comic artwork--each artist should get certain details right; however, each artist ought to be free to interpret the characters in their own distinctive style.

Sure, but we're not talking about writer's personal quirks, but complete opposite interpretation. Bruce decided to apply Damian to a normal school so he can be like a normal child in one book, and in the other, he forgets his birthday. Bruce went out of his way to bring Damian back to life in a previous story, then he lets him back fighting in the front line again, sometimes alone. This is not just small differences, this doesn't make sense as a story.

[Desmark]

Batman's need for control is understandable given his childhood trauma so he tries to impose order arbitrarily on a increasingly chaotic dangerous world so it's no wonder he always feels the need to keep some kryptonite or gadget to kick the crap out of superman and the others to feel truly safe in a world populated by superhumans.

[AmiMizuno]

But the point becomes shouldn't he calm down a bit? He himself is a great threat. So it's a questionable decision

[Ansa]

Sure, but we're not talking about writer's personal quirks, but complete opposite interpretation. Bruce decided to apply Damian to a normal school so he can be like a normal child in one book, and in the other, he forgets his birthday. Bruce went out of his way to bring Damian back to life in a previous story, then he lets him back fighting in the front line again, sometimes alone. This is not just small differences, this doesn't make sense as a story.

And if you try to make sense of his behaviour it looks like Bruce only cares about Damian when he's gone and Bruce feels guilty about it or as if he only takes care of his son when he feels like it or thinks he would look bad compared to Superman. None of that sounds very flattering.

[Arctic Cyclist]

And if you try to make sense of his behaviour it looks like Bruce only cares about Damian when he's gone and Bruce feels guilty about it or as if he only takes care of his son when he feels like it or thinks he would look bad compared to Superman. None of that sounds very flattering.

It gets worse when you read every Bat related book from Damian's introduction and focus on what the last conversation Bruce had with Damian was. Remember that pearl from Tom King's second annual?

It's a major part of Damian's and Bruce's storyline, and Damian is shown in all of the Bat books featuring Bruce searching for that pearl to prove to Bruce that their pasts don't define them and that both of them are capable of changing and healing together. Then you have the last conversation between the two of them (which only Jason is present to witness) where Bruce literally breaks Damian emotionally by informing him that he is not, and never will be, good enough.

Which is referred to by multiple villains in Snyder's run, particularly in his second Annual.

If you're paying attention, you'll catch that Damian wrote Bruce a suicide note and went into battle knowing he wasn't coming back hence Bruce's meltdown and attempts to bring him back. We're told that it's because Bruce loves Damian, but we're constantly shown that Bruce is indifferent to Damian's welfare and health and the fight to bring Damian back boils down to Bruce prefers Damian dead however there are other forces in the universe that consider Damian too important to stay dead. (Money. Readers who were willing to buy anything and everything with Damian in it and harrassed everyone and anyone at DC and WB in order to have their favorite character back.)

Bruce is a terrible father and a terrible person. His need to control people in real life is considered severe emotional abuse.

There's a reason why people loved the Dark Knight Returns and Batman Beyond: once you hit a certain age, you want to know that someone who treats people the way Bruce does ends up alone and miserable. You also hope they realize the error of their ways and earn redemption the way Bruce does through Carrie and Terry.