Is Batman’s need to control a flaw of his ?

[Gotham citizen]

Identity Crisis isn't the best example of how Batman uses control. That whole thing wasn't about anything other than setting the scene for Infinite Crisis and the big bad of Superboy Prime to reunite them. The story was interesting but really did not do Batman any favors and the notion of Batman always being in opposition to the other heroes, having kryptonite around 'just-in-case.' etc. is against the way Batman has been portrayed most of his comic book life.

Batman shouldn't be paranoid or obsessive-compulsive, or lack the ability to trust others, as he sometimes gets portrayed. He's a hero and should get along with other heroes. Control is a big tool of his because he has no superpowers, so he has to go to greater lengths to survive the rigors of being a normal human in a super-powered world. Thats pretty much it. Its not a flaw, its pretty much just the mental part of his martial arts training.

At least ... thats how things should be.

I agree: the ability to anticipate the others and control the events his is greater power, but this power should be used against the villains and their plots, not against his companions and in my opinion this is a writer's flaw: they are writing Bruce Wayne almost like if he were an antihero, not the hero he was meant to be and he actually was. It is like they aren't able to write a story where Batman is resolute without be obsessive-compulsive.
I don't know if some of you has my same feeling, but I start to think this "insane" Batman is what Azrael should be: a reckless, paranoid, violent and disrespectful (toward the other heroes and the law) version of Batman, but he isn't a good Batman, who instead should be a shrewd and clever planner, skilled to nurture the talents of his sidekicks, who works with the law and perfectly conscious about the difference between the necessary use of the force and the violence.

[Agent Z]

It's a double-edged sword. His need for control is his biggest flaw, and his greatest strength.

Exactly. Without the control, the discipline of himself and his knowledge of his city and teams, he's not effective. But it also creates a ton of its own problems. So I don't think it's a simple yes or no answer - it's both.

Bruce wanting to control himself isn't the issue. Wanting to control other people is.

[Agent Z]

Later on, it was shown that Jason shot Penguin with a blank. Rather then trust Jason, Bruce went out of his way to knock him senseless. It took interference from first, Bizarro and later, Roy (sneak attack) to rescue Jason. And it took months for Jason to move without being in constant pain.

Where is this from?

[Jackalope89]

Where is this from?

Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth #25.

[Jackalope89]

Call me a sadist, but I loved seeing Bruce beat the tar out of Jason.

"Sadist" isn't the word I was thinking of...

[Jim Kelly]

Bruce Wayne is a fictional character. You have hundreds of writers that each comes to the character with their own take on his personality. Is he psychologically damaged or is he well-adjusted? Is he abusive or is he kind? Is he narcissistic or compassionate? Is he a control freak or even-handed? There is no one answer that is right--not anymore, after so many different stories about the guy (maybe once upon a long ago when there was only one main writer, but not now).

These kinds of questions drive me batty because they attempt to impose a consistent vision of the character on what is necessarily inconsistent. In some stories, Batman has a need to control and in some of those stories that is a flaw of his. It's better to discuss specific cases--because then you have one writer and one story that can be examined and interpreted.

[Restingvoice]

After reading this article on CBR: https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-j...leader-batman/, I was thinking about the fact that Batman is a control freak of a hero. I mean his paranoia against other heroes, his disrespect to authority figures and yet whenever his plans backfired on him and those around him: Has he ever apologized to anyone over this ?

I mean Omac Project and Tower of Babel comes to mind. One could say the events of Identity Crisis give him goo reasons to not trust heroes, but even he takes his need to control the situation too far. Right ?

Which brings me to my original question: Do you think Batman’s need to control is a flaw of his or not ?

As Batman fans: Where do you fall within this question ?

Bruce? Apologize? HAH! The kids need to almost die first before he'd do that.

That's canon, by the way.

In the JL themselves, Superman's kinda already sighed in resignation, Barry's the peacekeeper, Arthur's staying out of it, and Diana prefers to act so unless there's actual damage she's just gonna let Batman be Batman.

Hal's the only one with the energy to fight him.

That said, when it comes to Batman's paranoia, recent stories has proven he's more right than wrong. The number of times the JL got brainwashed necessitates his plan.

So before calling out on Bruce's behavior or changing it, they need to stop treating JL like a hypocritical time bomb.

Bruce Wayne is a fictional character. You have hundreds of writers that each comes to the character with their own take on his personality. Is he psychologically damaged or is he well-adjusted? Is he abusive or is he kind? Is he narcissistic or compassionate? Is he a control freak or even-handed? There is no one answer that is right--not anymore, after so many different stories about the guy (maybe once upon a long ago when there was only one main writer, but not now).

These kinds of questions drive me batty because they attempt to impose a consistent vision of the character on what is necessarily inconsistent. In some stories, Batman has a need to control and in some of those stories that is a flaw of his. It's better to discuss specific cases--because then you have one writer and one story that can be examined and interpreted.

If they want to sell these stories as a part of one big story under one Universe, then they need to be consistent.

[Nite-Wing]

Later on, it was shown that Jason shot Penguin with a blank. Rather then trust Jason, Bruce went out of his way to knock him senseless. It took interference from first, Bizarro and later, Roy (sneak attack) to rescue Jason. And it took months for Jason to move without being in constant pain.

Gotta give it to Bruce here he is showing an amazing amount of restraint. After everything Jason has pulled he still keeps him around like some lost puppy who keeps shitting in your apartment. I guess the one time you don't find poop on the floor makes up for everything else though.
Jason is being a petty little child as always and only doing things that further his own complex about everyone viewing him a certain way.
How hard is it to say "Its a blank" or "Trust me"
He does these little tantrums to fracture his relationship with Bruce so much its amazing anyone takes his emotional outbursts seriously anymore. Its just a typical victim complex that he needs to keep himself going.
If Bruce pulled the casual flex on any of the Robins for failing him like this it would get called emotional abuse but nobody seems to care about them doing the same thing to him all the time. Like saying he's wrong doesn't hurt him just as much

Not that I don't think Bruce isn't wrong here its just that Jason is being even more dumb as usual

[Astralabius]

Bruce Wayne is a fictional character. You have hundreds of writers that each comes to the character with their own take on his personality. Is he psychologically damaged or is he well-adjusted? Is he abusive or is he kind? Is he narcissistic or compassionate? Is he a control freak or even-handed? There is no one answer that is right--not anymore, after so many different stories about the guy (maybe once upon a long ago when there was only one main writer, but not now).

These kinds of questions drive me batty because they attempt to impose a consistent vision of the character on what is necessarily inconsistent. In some stories, Batman has a need to control and in some of those stories that is a flaw of his. It's better to discuss specific cases--because then you have one writer and one story that can be examined and interpreted.

Of course there are different takes, but if you look at New 52 Batman/Rebirth Batman I think you can say that the stories where he's an ******* to everyone around him have increased and his distrust in others has causes terrible things from the events of Metal to the current infection by the Batman Who Laughs of hundreds of heroes.
We're not talking about 80 years of Batman, we are looking at current Bruce. And that aren't hundred takes.

[Astralabius]

The amount of people who are okay with Bruce beating up his protégés is a bit disturbing. The Robins are all young adults or younger who went through messed up things. Bruce did too, but he's an adult and their mentor/father figure. He chose to take them in. He's responsible for them and if he can't do that than he's simply a failure of a leader and father.

[Jackalope89]

Gotta give it to Bruce here he is showing an amazing amount of restraint. After everything Jason has pulled he still keeps him around like some lost puppy who keeps shitting in your apartment. I guess the one time you don't find poop on the floor makes up for everything else though.
Jason is being a petty little child as always and only doing things that further his own complex about everyone viewing him a certain way.
How hard is it to say "Its a blank" or "Trust me"
He does these little tantrums to fracture his relationship with Bruce so much its amazing anyone takes his emotional outbursts seriously anymore. Its just a typical victim complex that he needs to keep himself going.
If Bruce pulled the casual flex on any of the Robins for failing him like this it would get called emotional abuse but nobody seems to care about them doing the same thing to him all the time. Like saying he's wrong doesn't hurt him just as much

Not that I don't think Bruce isn't wrong here its just that Jason is being even more dumb as usual

Yeah because Bruce tells everyone, "Trust me" when he does things like Tower of Babel.

Jason though, was taking the heat off himself without killing Penguin, it was part of his plan. Bruce being 2 points short of being a demented psychopath, well, that's on Bruce (and Alfred).

[Cmbmool]

Bruce wanting to control himself isn't the issue. Wanting to control other people is.

Couldn't they be a same thing in a parallel sense given the length he go through to capture the villains and not end them like the likes of Jason and Barbara would ask them when it concerns the Joker ? White Knight even shows that his way isn't working out how he wanted it.

[charliehustle415]

Yes, it's a huge flaw; but it makes for compelling story telling.

See Batman Murderer & Fugitive. The entire thing could have been dealt with if he simply allowed the Bat-Family to help.

PS: That Nightwing Batman fight is beyond awesome.

[Jcady59]

Yeah because Bruce tells everyone, "Trust me" when he does things like Tower of Babel.

Jason though, was taking the heat off himself without killing Penguin, it was part of his plan. Bruce being 2 points short of being a demented psychopath, well, that's on Bruce (and Alfred).

Except Bruce earned his fellow hero’s trust long before Tower of Babel Just as he has done after, Jason hasn’t earned **** so why should Bruce trust him? If Bruce thought that Jason killed penguin it’s not because he’s 2 points short of being a psychopath it’s because Jason is an actual psychopath who’s killed a looot of people.

[Bat-Meal]

Definitely a character flaw, with the purpose of creating drama and tension.

The Rise of the Batmen arc in 'Tec was about the lengths he went to to try to control Batwoman (keep her on team-bat and away from the Colony), which backfired. In the process other family members were also manipulated and hurt. Plus, in her solo that happened around the same time he sent Julia to spy/babysit Batwoman.