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  1. #1
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    Default Mutants = ¿¿¿True Evolution???

    Hello how are you, I have opened this thread because I have several doubts about the evolution and mutants; and I would like to know what you think

    First, many claim that mutants are the next step in human evolution, but the actions of some of them have proved the opposite:

    *The mutants have a unique special gene known as the x gene, which gives them their variety of different powers for each of them.
    But if that gene is eliminated, do the mutants devolve? no, they just become powerless, but their personality and intelligence remains the same, as the humans (same with the inhumans or mutates), that is, they are already human.

    when the hominids evolved their mind developed, but the mutants are simply that human mutants, a genetically altered subspecies, their personalities are the same (example: Iceman was the same subject before his powers were activated)

    *What about an evolved human but without the x gene, is it possible? yes, in the comic "What If the Avengers Had Lost the Evolutionary War? the genetic bomb gave normal humans bigger heads with advanced minds and due to that the evolved humans made peace with the mutants and with each other across the glob, and in a short time they achieve harmony and complete peace.

    If mutants are the next step, why do they continue to make the mistakes of humanity? Conquest, bigotry, violence, death and still claim to be superior?
    they would be supposed to be better, that is, they would be beyond revenge, violence, arrogance and being our successors; they should with all their gifts be guides of humanity. That has happened with many mutants both heroes and villains (Magneto, Exodus, Cortez, Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Wolverine)

    Example: In the comic What If Magneto Ruled All Mutants, the acolyte´s Magneto, live in the asteroid M, a group of them directed by Exodus wants to find their place far from Earth, the other one directed by Cortez, wants to return and annihilate the humans and claim what belongs to them by right, there is no peace between them, until the baby of Rusty and Skids is born. Dr. McCoy discovered that according to the tests, the baby is born with the power to chose any mutation he wants. He may be the 'Ultimate Mutant'.

    The two gropus feel threatened and they finally manage to kill the baby, but it turns out that Magneto had altered the evidence to give his subjects a common enemy.

    Does that show that mutants and human beings are nothing different, shouldn't mutants accept the next step of mutantkind? How the evolved humans made peace with the mutants, in the first comic that I mentioned

    and not only that, in what if professor x had become the juggernaut, Magneto forms a mutant army, which conquers Santo Marco (and it is thanks to him began the anti-mutant feeling); Xavier defeat Magneto , takes over the country and his X-Men are used to enforce anti-human laws. and after almost a world war III, the humans are routinely terrorized by mutant gangs immune to the law, while the mutants are treated as if they had blue blood

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6xoH967aC0...0/wif013-2.jpg


    So being a mutant is a step to do everything you want, without consequence or punishment, just for being homo superior?
    that is arrogance, mutant, human, inhuman, deviant, atlantean, mutate, everyone has the right to live his life fully, without anyone oppressing them; species working together learn to overcome their racist tendencies and not see the world in black and white.

    The Human Supremacy and the Mutant Supremacy end goal does not necessarily justify the means;
    Even if one of them achieves dominance, how much time will pass for the other fight for their dominance, the mutants and humans cannot expect to be on top and remain unharmed, in the end they are only creating a vicious circle that has no end

    if the mutants do not overcome those failures, it means that they are human, no matter how much they deny it

    an finally the Age of Apocalypse nuff said

    But if you strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Mutants is failure. Hypocrisy, hubris… change jedi for mutant
    Last edited by Omnihallows; 02-06-2020 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I think where Hickman will end up is where we all started: a school.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Why would the mutants be different from the 'humans'?

    Only one gene distinguishes them.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Why would the mutants be different from the 'humans'?

    Only one gene distinguishes them.
    exactly my point

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Why would the mutants be different from the 'humans'?

    Only one gene distinguishes them.
    Because it's science fiction and not real science. Also, I think that it was Beast that stated that the X-Gene triggers the changes in the whole genetic structure of the mutant or generally in more than one gene. So it's more than one gene but the X-Gene is the one that starts it all.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Because it's science fiction and not real science. Also, I think that it was Beast that stated that the X-Gene triggers the changes in the whole genetic structure of the mutant or generally in more than one gene. So it's more than one gene but the X-Gene is the one that starts it all.
    So which do you think would be our evolution or is there nothing after us?

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Because it's science fiction and not real science. Also, I think that it was Beast that stated that the X-Gene triggers the changes in the whole genetic structure of the mutant or generally in more than one gene. So it's more than one gene but the X-Gene is the one that starts it all.
    No, it's science fantasy; science fiction is ostensibly rooted in actual scientific concepts and the exploration there of.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  8. #8
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    While it's constantly dropped casually in the books, the actual futures they keep showing indicate that mutants don't wind up dominating the planet. Humans are still the overwhelming majority of the population in them. The few mutant dominant futures we've seen have been horrific dystopias ruled by mutant castes with the powerful crushing the rest. Sprinkle in some gross eugenics in there and the fecal hotpot is complete.

    The current run is giving the mutants something they honestly deserve: A safe place away from a world that is virulently, ferociously, almost cartoonishly hateful towards them. They're making their own culture, their own language, and live on a massive mutant organism that lives off of their life force. Cool. What Hickman is flicking little bits of excrement every other statement, enough that some readers are starting to smell a foul odor. It's intentional, mind you. The ethno-state, the unchallenged statements of superiority of mutants over other life on Earth, etc... Hickman loves building folks up just to crush them under well learned lessons and come out better on the other side.

  9. #9
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    It's worth pointing out that comic book evolution is different from real evolution. Real evolution doesn't exist in steps. It's more akin to picking out the colors of M&Ms you like.

    It's possible that failure isn't a criteria for evolutionary levels in the Marvel Universe.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    A predator that evolves into something stronger with unique abilities can still be essentially a predator but far superior to the old one.

    Likewise, a mutant who has unique abilities that makes him different from humans will not necessarily behave differently from humans although this possibility exists.

    Mutants are no different from humans in terms of behavior and needs but have unique abilities that make them totally different from humans. The fact that estimates and research say that without apocalyptic events or (human) intervention, mutants will replace humans by becoming the dominant species is what scares most of those who hate mutants.

    However, when we are talking about these studies it is important to say that factors other than biology are not taken into account. Evolution is something that goes beyond the biological factor if we are going to use science as genetic manipulation or union between machines and humans, as Hickmann's intention seems to be. If we take into account evolution through technological science then mutants would be just one of the possibilities.

    Even Inhumans or The Children of the Vault would be candidates to replace the human race if we go beyond the biological factor and although they are superior to humans they can still make the same mistakes as well as mutants.

    Evolution of an intelligent being does not mean that there will necessarily be a utopia in terms of society.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    A predator that evolves into something stronger with unique abilities can still be essentially a predator but far superior to the old one.

    Likewise, a mutant who has unique abilities that makes him different from humans will not necessarily behave differently from humans although this possibility exists.

    Mutants are no different from humans in terms of behavior and needs but have unique abilities that make them totally different from humans. The fact that estimates and research say that without apocalyptic events or (human) intervention, mutants will replace humans by becoming the dominant species is what scares most of those who hate mutants.

    However, when we are talking about these studies it is important to say that factors other than biology are not taken into account. Evolution is something that goes beyond the biological factor if we are going to use science as genetic manipulation or union between machines and humans, as Hickmann's intention seems to be. If we take into account evolution through technological science then mutants would be just one of the possibilities.

    Even Inhumans or The Children of the Vault would be candidates to replace the human race if we go beyond the biological factor and although they are superior to humans they can still make the same mistakes as well as mutants.

    Evolution of an intelligent being does not mean that there will necessarily be a utopia in terms of society.
    what about mental evolution not biological?? when we develop and mature, we make mistakes and learn from them to improve, is that technically not evolution?

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omnihallows View Post
    what about mental evolution not biological?? when we develop and mature, we make mistakes and learn from them to improve, is that technically not evolution?
    In a way, yes, but if this intelligence occurs due to learning and not for biological reasons, then we are not talking about the evolution of species through the change of hereditary characteristics.

    For example, let's see the Star Trek universe where humanity in the future evolves to the point of building something very close to a Utopia on Earth. In this universe, humans learned from their mistakes and with the help of alien species and technology they reach the highest point of their society. Wars and famine have been eradicated and human although can use implants they are essentially still human. This does not mean that it is a perfect world or that there is no greed among humans, but it is something far superior to the human condition that we live in the real world.

    Now in this same universe, let us look at the case of Khan Noonien Singh and his people who were created through genetic manipulation. They are far more superior than any human in all aspects, whether in physical terms or intelligence. In this sense, we can say that he is the evolution of humans from the point of view of improvement through science and not as a natural biological factor. The fact that he is a villain is also an interesting thing to note.

    There are many ways to evaluate societies and species but morality is not necessarily essential because it can change from culture to culture.

    You can have an extremely advanced culture or society and yet it can be made up of tyrants. Evolution of societies or species does not mean a result where pacifism is found.

  13. #13
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    While it's constantly dropped casually in the books, the actual futures they keep showing indicate that mutants don't wind up dominating the planet. Humans are still the overwhelming majority of the population in them. The few mutant dominant futures we've seen have been horrific dystopias ruled by mutant castes with the powerful crushing the rest. Sprinkle in some gross eugenics in there and the fecal hotpot is complete.

    The current run is giving the mutants something they honestly deserve: A safe place away from a world that is virulently, ferociously, almost cartoonishly hateful towards them. They're making their own culture, their own language, and live on a massive mutant organism that lives off of their life force. Cool. What Hickman is flicking little bits of excrement every other statement, enough that some readers are starting to smell a foul odor. It's intentional, mind you. The ethno-state, the unchallenged statements of superiority of mutants over other life on Earth, etc... Hickman loves building folks up just to crush them under well learned lessons and come out better on the other side.
    Like he did with the Avengers, to the point that Secret Wars 2015 was more a (temporary) swan song for the Fantastic Four where the fate of everything boiled down to Reed Richards vs. Victor Von Doom while the Avengers were barely a footnote due to having already collapsed under the weight of their hubris and hypocrisy, and ultimately their inability to live up to their own hype.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #14
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Like he did with the Avengers, to the point that Secret Wars 2015 was more a (temporary) swan song for the Fantastic Four where the fate of everything boiled down to Reed Richards vs. Victor Von Doom while the Avengers were barely a footnote due to having already collapsed under the weight of their hubris and hypocrisy, and ultimately their inability to live up to their own hype.
    Exactly. He is going to write in events that will have the X-Men questioning and reevaluating themselves, their values, and the world at large. But to get there people better be prepared to see their favorite character get absolutely mangled. I still remember people dropping Secret Wars because people couldn't stand to see their favorites brought so low, and uncomfortably so.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    In a way, yes, but if this intelligence occurs due to learning and not for biological reasons, then we are not talking about the evolution of species through the change of hereditary characteristics.

    For example, let's see the Star Trek universe where humanity in the future evolves to the point of building something very close to a Utopia on Earth. In this universe, humans learned from their mistakes and with the help of alien species and technology they reach the highest point of their society. Wars and famine have been eradicated and human although can use implants they are essentially still human. This does not mean that it is a perfect world or that there is no greed among humans, but it is something far superior to the human condition that we live in the real world.

    Now in this same universe, let us look at the case of Khan Noonien Singh and his people who were created through genetic manipulation. They are far more superior than any human in all aspects, whether in physical terms or intelligence. In this sense, we can say that he is the evolution of humans from the point of view of improvement through science and not as a natural biological factor. The fact that he is a villain is also an interesting thing to note.

    There are many ways to evaluate societies and species but morality is not necessarily essential because it can change from culture to culture.

    You can have an extremely advanced culture or society and yet it can be made up of tyrants. Evolution of societies or species does not mean a result where pacifism is found.

    that is, no matter how much we evolve, we will never be perfect ??
    So what does Xavier hope to achieve with Krakoa? he must be careful that his aspirations do not choke him (yes, i quote to vader in rogue one) or it would be like icarus so arrogant as to fly to the sun

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