Mutants = ¿¿¿True Evolution???

[Knives]

that is, no matter how much we evolve, we will never be perfect ??
So what does Xavier hope to achieve with Krakoa? he must be careful that his aspirations do not choke him (yes, i quote to vader in rogue one) or it would be like icarus so arrogant as to fly to the sun

Believe me Xavier knows this very well as do many heroes who always commit questionable acts in the name of a greater good like the real world.

What most people don't understand is the basic concept of what it means to live. Living beings can be as good or peaceful as the world they live in allows them to do this for both humans and animals.If the world you live in does not allow you to be a good person then you will do what is necessary to survive.


From Xavier's point of view, after seeing Moira's visions, his pacifist approach failed every time and even in the timeline where they went the most with Apocalypse, the maximum they could achieve was a few years. At each point the humans who used technology to improve themselves or create machines to annihilate mutants beat them.

What Hickman seems to mean is that biological evolution cannot overcome evolution through science and technology.

That is why Xavier and Eric are so desperate that they go to the last consequences. Imagine seeing hundreds of years in 10 timelines and in all of them seeing that the future you dreamed has never become real. This does not mean that the future of humans is good, on the contrary, they have become slaves of machines or animals trapped in a zoo, but it is still the defeat of mutants.

Anyone without exception in the face of such a dilemma would either give up or sacrifice everything to change the end result. It's not about heroes becoming bad people, it's about heroes who find a barrier that they can't destroy in ordinary ways and that's why they are forced to go further as in Time Runs Out.

[Omnihallows]

Believe me Xavier knows this very well as do many heroes who always commit questionable acts in the name of a greater good like the real world.

What most people don't understand is the basic concept of what it means to live. Living beings can be as good or peaceful as the world they live in allows them to do this for both humans and animals.If the world you live in does not allow you to be a good person then you will do what is necessary to survive.


From Xavier's point of view, after seeing Moira's visions, his pacifist approach failed every time and even in the timeline where they went the most with Apocalypse, the maximum they could achieve was a few years. At each point the humans who used technology to improve themselves or create machines to annihilate mutants beat them.

What Hickman seems to mean is that biological evolution cannot overcome evolution through science and technology.

That is why Xavier and Eric are so desperate that they go to the last consequences. Imagine seeing hundreds of years in 10 timelines and in all of them seeing that the future you dreamed has never become real. This does not mean that the future of humans is good, on the contrary, they have become slaves of machines or animals trapped in a zoo, but it is still the defeat of mutants.

Anyone without exception in the face of such a dilemma would either give up or sacrifice everything to change the end result. It's not about heroes becoming bad people, it's about heroes who find a barrier that they can't destroy in ordinary ways and that's why they are forced to go further as in Time Runs Out.

but they cannot and should not try to dominate the destiny of the earth or humanity, as I said in my first post, they cannot hope to reach the top and that it will be forever, sooner or later a new species will come and then what will happen? ? Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse and Moira don't have a monopoly on wisdom or understanding of the mutants,
Nothing is forever, as the song says, everything stays, but it changes

Look at Magneto, he suffered because of the Nazis and his extremist methods are no different, however there are many individuals who went through the same and are better people, read my first post if you have doubts

[hulkling]

Believe me Xavier knows this very well as do many heroes who always commit questionable acts in the name of a greater good like the real world.

What most people don't understand is the basic concept of what it means to live. Living beings can be as good or peaceful as the world they live in allows them to do this for both humans and animals.If the world you live in does not allow you to be a good person then you will do what is necessary to survive.


From Xavier's point of view, after seeing Moira's visions, his pacifist approach failed every time and even in the timeline where they went the most with Apocalypse, the maximum they could achieve was a few years. At each point the humans who used technology to improve themselves or create machines to annihilate mutants beat them.

What Hickman seems to mean is that biological evolution cannot overcome evolution through science and technology.

That is why Xavier and Eric are so desperate that they go to the last consequences. Imagine seeing hundreds of years in 10 timelines and in all of them seeing that the future you dreamed has never become real. This does not mean that the future of humans is good, on the contrary, they have become slaves of machines or animals trapped in a zoo, but it is still the defeat of mutants.

Anyone without exception in the face of such a dilemma would either give up or sacrifice everything to change the end result. It's not about heroes becoming bad people, it's about heroes who find a barrier that they can't destroy in ordinary ways and that's why they are forced to go further as in Time Runs Out.

Moira ever tried to work with humans? not talking about the life where the Xmen become the P5 and try to dominate the world like the 616, at that point the relationship between humans washorrible. A timeline where she tried to create teams with humans and mutants instead of make a difference between them. I still think that she is the problem. Her first life pretty good for everyone , not mention of people being killed in streets by sentinels or something worse , she became involved and everything goes to hell in less than 50 years.

There is a moment when she should think that maybe the problem is her.

[Knives]

but they cannot and should not try to dominate the destiny of the earth or humanity, as I said in my first post, they cannot hope to reach the top and that it will be forever, sooner or later a new species will come and then what will happen? ? Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse and Moira don't have a monopoly on wisdom or understanding of the mutants,
Nothing is forever, as the song says, everything stays, but it changes

Look at Magneto, he suffered because of the Nazis and his extremist methods are no different, however there are many individuals who went through the same and are better people, read my first post if you have doubts

You are confusing ethics and pacifism with survival in the face of a likely or inevitable outcome.

Let's do a test.

Imagine that due to an apocalyptic disaster, 60% of the Earth's natural resources disappear. What do you think people and governments in the world would do?

A) They would divide the resources equally although this would end up causing the extinction of humanity in a few years.

B) They would fight for the resources causing the decrease of the species and the death of millions but it would give time and hopes to humanity with years to try to change the situation.

When the environment becomes inadequate the survival of the fittest becomes the rule. Mutants have been almost extinct 10 times or so and now they know about the future.

It is no longer about coexistence or winning over humans is about surviving the future.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

exactly my point

Mutants are only the future in X-Men comics. The entire premise only matters if you don't read anything else. The Hulk is going to destroy the universe and then the universe after it. But only in Hulk comics. Every story has its hook.

[Lapsus]

The problem for me is how different are the mutants, they all share the X-Gene but in practice they are as different from each other as from humans. What makes the community is the persecution.

Thats what Marvel narrative dictates to differentiate them from Mutates.

Do every Mutant think like a Human?? if Mutants were the only branch on Earth, how they would call themselves ?? the word Mutant is used to differentiate from baseline Humans, without humans, that word loss meaning.

Especially when the X-Gene is not a condition exclusive to humans.

The insult "Flatscan" can be ironically view as a way to indentify themselves as Humans, taking away the "baseliners" the rigth to be "true Humans" making them a lesser branch of Humanity.

I said this because some mutants have mutations that make it difficult for them to have relationships with other Humans and Mutants, sometimes impossible. This doesnt need to be a barrier but can become one.

[Omnihallows]

You are confusing ethics and pacifism with survival in the face of a likely or inevitable outcome.

Let's do a test.

Imagine that due to an apocalyptic disaster, 60% of the Earth's natural resources disappear. What do you think people and governments in the world would do?

A) They would divide the resources equally although this would end up causing the extinction of humanity in a few years.

B) They would fight for the resources causing the decrease of the species and the death of millions but it would give time and hopes to humanity with years to try to change the situation.

When the environment becomes inadequate the survival of the fittest becomes the rule. Mutants have been almost extinct 10 times or so and now they know about the future.

It is no longer about coexistence or winning over humans is about surviving the future.

So for a species to survive, things must be done that are morally doubtful, no matter how violent or how cruel are they? I don't think it's fair, especially with a species that claims to be the next step and yet they have the same flaws as their "inferiors" and yet hypocritically proclaim themselves as better or superior.

[Knives]

So for a species to survive, things must be done that are morally doubtful, no matter how violent or how cruel are they? I don't think it's fair, especially with a species that claims to be the next step and yet they have the same flaws as their "inferiors" and yet hypocritically proclaim themselves as better or superior.

Again you are applying morality in impossible situations. It is not a matter of you or me being right or doing the right thing.

I'm talking about how living beings act, live, learn and evolve, whether peacefully or not.

To be fair it is true that 10 lines in time do not correspond to all the temporal lines or alternate universes in marvel. However, from Xavier's point of view, even though he believes in some future where humanity and mutants live together, the fact is that he doesn't know how to get to that happy ending. The most he can do is see where he failed in Moira's visions and prepare for the worst in the hope of being enough. Imagine a game where you have 5 bad endings and a good one and only one chance to get it right. That's more or less what Xavier is dealing with.

If Xavier makes a mistake it is the end of the mutants and this time they could no longer count on Moira and another chance (technically there's a catch here about Moira's lives).

Moira ever tried to work with humans? not talking about the life where the Xmen become the P5 and try to dominate the world like the 616, at that point the relationship between humans washorrible. A timeline where she tried to create teams with humans and mutants instead of make a difference between them. I still think that she is the problem. Her first life pretty good for everyone , not mention of people being killed in streets by sentinels or something worse , she became involved and everything goes to hell in less than 50 years.

There is a moment when she should think that maybe the problem is her.

Yes, there is a timeline where she and Xavier tried the path of pacifism and failed horribly.

Interestingly, you believe that Moira is the reason mutants fail. She tried to eliminate the mutant species before being killed by Destiny and this change the point of view of her actions in other lives . However, even without her interference, certain patterns were always repeated as the creation of artificial intelligences.

[Omnihallows]

Again you are applying morality in impossible situations. It is not a matter of you or me being right or doing the right thing.

I'm talking about how living beings act, live, learn and evolve, whether peacefully or not.

To be fair it is true that 10 lines in time do not correspond to all the temporal lines or alternate universes in marvel. However, from Xavier's point of view, even though he believes in some future where humanity and mutants live together, the fact is that he doesn't know how to get to that happy ending. The most he can do is see where he failed in Moira's visions and prepare for the worst in the hope of being enough. Imagine a game where you have 5 bad endings and a good one and only one chance to get it right. That's more or less what Xavier is dealing with.

If Xavier makes a mistake it is the end of the mutants and this time they could no longer count on Moira and another chance (technically there's a catch here about Moira's lives).



Yes, there is a timeline where she and Xavier tried the path of pacifism and failed horribly.

Interestingly, you believe that Moira is the reason mutants fail. She tried to eliminate the mutant species before being killed by Destiny and this change the point of view of her actions in other lives . However, even without her interference, certain patterns were always repeated as the creation of artificial intelligences.

I apply morality, because that is the basis of a civilization

[Knives]

I apply morality, because that is the basis of a civilization

I would say that mutual assistance or collaboration is the basis of a society but I admit that morality is also an important factor but it is the first thing to be discarded in complicated situations.

I don't see how mutants and humans can coexist in the same space under the circumstances. In the marvel universe there are no laws that protect mutants and governments and the military persecute, kill or use them in experiments. In the same way that Xavier is questioned and criticized, I don't feel that there is the same demand on the other side. Humans who commit crimes against mutants are almost never convicted.

I have lost track of how many times the school was blown up or how many times the mutants were almost extinct.

Krakoa only has support from countries and exists because humans need drugs so there is no intention for humans to accept mutants if there is nothing to gain .

In this scenario and given Moira's information why should Mutants trust humans? There is no reason or anything to gain. Especially if we consider that they continue to try to destroy Krakoa and the mutants even after Xavier fulfills his promise then the problem is not the mutants, but the humans who keep trying to exterminate them.

[Zelena]

So for a species to survive, things must be done that are morally doubtful, no matter how violent or how cruel are they? I don't think it's fair, especially with a species that claims to be the next step and yet they have the same flaws as their "inferiors" and yet hypocritically proclaim themselves as better or superior.

We have never lived in difficult times, … well I haven't. That's true that all, over the world, people have been facing difficult situations, to live, to survive. It's hard to talk about moral with someone who just wants to keep his head out of water.

Now, what is moral? Rules to live together peacefully in the family, in the society. These rules are needed. You cannot imagine a society without rules. Krakoa has rules, the human societies have rules.

In our society, it's bad to kill a human being? You go in jail if you do that? And still, we have armies, we go to war… So it's not about moral, it's political. The 'mutants are superior' is a part of their rhetoric.

The problem for me is how different are the mutants, they all share the X-Gene but in practice they are as different from each other as from humans. What makes the community is the persecution.

Thats what Marvel narrative dictates to differentiate them from Mutates.

Do every Mutant think like a Human?? if Mutants were the only branch on Earth, how they would call themselves ?? the word Mutant is used to differentiate from baseline Humans, without humans, that word loss meaning.

Especially when the X-Gene is not a condition exclusive to humans.

The insult "Flatscan" can be ironically view as a way to indentify themselves as Humans, taking away the "baseliners" the rigth to be "true Humans" making them a lesser branch of Humanity.

I said this because some mutants have mutations that make it difficult for them to have relationships with other Humans and Mutants, sometimes impossible. This doesnt need to be a barrier but can become one.

I agree, during a long time, the mutants didn't think of themselves different from the humans… except for their powers. Well, personally, it was the reason why I could relate to them.

But, lately, it has changed.

Concretely, the only thing that the mutants have in commun is persecution because they are mutants. If it was about powers, they would feel a kinship towards mutated. In a way, they only defined by external influences: it is rather loose as a connection. In the ethno-pure environment of Krakoa devoid of any persecution, the connection should erode. The funny thing would be that mutants resume behaving like bees in a hive. Well, according to the scans, Mystique doesn't.

No, it's science fantasy; science fiction is ostensibly rooted in actual scientific concepts and the exploration there of.

Like when gamma radiation was used as explanation for the transformation to Hulk because his creator liked the word…

[Killerbee911]

First, many claim that mutants are the next step in human evolution, but the actions of some of them have proved the opposite:

No the fiction claims that they are and as readers we go along with the fiction. The fiction indecisive because the fiction is written by many writers and marvel never reboots so no one answer is the king. So what is the answer the most recent fiction telling of issue. Current the X-men are going with the next step in human evolution until the next writer comes and pushes along their theory over it. That is what you should go with but you can what some fans do and pick and choose what part of the fiction they think make sense it is their prerogative to do so it just that you will never win any arguments on the internet. Because they will ignore "your facts" and you will ignore "their facts" because both of you are choosing what gets to be correct fiction. I just go with the most recent fiction because that is the clear story they are trying to tell at the moment.

The fiction right now is saying

Humans= Dogs
Mutants= Wolves
Homo Novissima= Labradoodle

Wolves and Dogs are part of same family Canidae but different species and functional that is what is happening in Marvel. Now real life tells you that dogs and wolves live together with no issue, While Marvel fiction tells you that someday Wolves and Dogs are going intermingle together,Pure Dogs will slow die off and nothing will be left back but Wolves functionally (but some those wolves mixed with dog right?) . But fiction right now also is telling us that some Dogs understand this don't like and create evil Labradoodles who hunt down and kill the Wolves before they take over. Labradoodle aren't meant happen but through science they exist. Moral of the story Labradoodles are evil or there is no big take away from this is fiction (trying to apply real science from outside in the fiction at times has flaws) but your choice.

[Omnihallows]

The problem for me is how different are the mutants, they all share the X-Gene but in practice they are as different from each other as from humans. What makes the community is the persecution.

Thats what Marvel narrative dictates to differentiate them from Mutates.

Do every Mutant think like a Human?? if Mutants were the only branch on Earth, how they would call themselves ?? the word Mutant is used to differentiate from baseline Humans, without humans, that word loss meaning.

Especially when the X-Gene is not a condition exclusive to humans.

The insult "Flatscan" can be ironically view as a way to indentify themselves as Humans, taking away the "baseliners" the rigth to be "true Humans" making them a lesser branch of Humanity.

I said this because some mutants have mutations that make it difficult for them to have relationships with other Humans and Mutants, sometimes impossible. This doesnt need to be a barrier but can become one.

in the universe dc is the meta gene, and the metahumans would be counterparts to the mutants

[Phoenixx9]

Are mutants simply "watered-down" Eternals/Eternals variants but without the cosmic might?

[BroHomo]

Wolves and Dogs are part of same family Canidae but different species and functional that is what is happening in Marvel. Now real life tells you that dogs and wolves live together with no issue, While Marvel fiction tells you that someday Wolves and Dogs are going intermingle together,Pure Dogs will slow die off and nothing will be left back but Wolves functionally (but some those wolves mixed with dog right?) . But fiction right now also is telling us that some Dogs understand this don't like and create evil Labradoodles who hunt down and kill the Wolves before they take over. Labradoodle aren't meant happen but through science they exist. Moral of the story Labradoodles are evil or there is no big take away from this is fiction (trying to apply real science from outside in the fiction at times has flaws) but your choice.

After meeting my friends huge ass, curly haired, Labordoodle, Otis I seriously believe this