Avengers vs Justice League

[Steel Inquisitor]

Grant Morrison's JLA (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash [Wally West], Green Lantern [Kyle Rayner] and Aquaman)


Avengers (Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Hulk, Namor and Quicksilver)


1) Khazen arena
a. With speedsters
b. Without speeders

2) Standard resources (Watchtower, Avengers mansion)
a. with speedsters
b. without speedsters

[Powerboy]

With speedsters, it's a slam dunk for Team DC. Eliminating speedsters really eliminates all of Team DC except for Batman, GL and Aquaman. It only eliminates Quicksilver as a serious Marvel speedster. It's still close but with Thor, Team Marvel might win.

Not sure with full resources.

[Desmark]

Well JLAs watchtower had the standard sonics, restrains, darts and whatnot in a young justice one shot whereas the mansions standard defenses sadly were limited to outside the mansions walls or at least I don't recall any being activated once a intruder was inside though of course I may be missing something. Anyways I would give it to watchtower security. (Not to mention all the weapons displayed which could be deployed and which again seemed absent in the mansion.)

[comic_powers_database]

Such a classic battle. I'll breakdown an important factor to consider:

- The universe the conflict takes place in is probably the most important factor to consider in this fight. I say that because that will dictate the magnitude of feats that can be performed (I.E. Scarlet Witch being a more potent magic user in DC universe than she is in the Marvel Universe. I know shes not in this fight, but wanted to bring up her on panel feat showing that there is a discrepancy between universes. What one character can do in the DC universe is not necessarily something they can replicate in the Marvel Universe, due to the laws of each of their realities being different).


Since OP did not specify a direct location other than the Arena, I'm going to go with a scenario where the all the characters are operating under the power limits of their respective universe, which does impact Marvel's ability to do damage. With that being said, I think the Avengers would have a hard time winning in any of the scenarios listed. Based on the roster selections, JLA has 3 characters (Superman, WW, and MH) who can KO anyone on that Avengers roster, without it being an outlying feat (a feat that is above the character's normal presented power level). I would argue that the Avengers only have 1 character (Thor) who could reasonably KO anyone on the JLA side (possibly Hulk, depending on the version of Hulk).

Namor has zero chance against Manhunter or Diana. I also think he would most likely lose to Flash and GL as well. Iron Man would be a wild card as his defense showings vary greatly. His defense is at times weak enough that even Batman could incapacitate him, but there are times where he can tank blows from someone as potent as Diana. One could theorize that Tony could take out Diana or Kyle if he's matched up against them, but Flash would be his weakness. With the durability and versatility advantages of Superman, WW, and Manhunter, I think they carry JLA to victories in all 3 scenarios.


I think the scenario is much more even if you switch out Namor and Quicksilver for Black Panther and Wanda or some other powerhouses. Depending on what characters you replace those two with, the Avengers could take the advantage based on battle tactics/intelligence or energy manipulation abilities.

[Powerboy]

Such a classic battle. I'll breakdown an important factor to consider:

- The universe the conflict takes place in is probably the most important factor to consider in this fight. I say that because that will dictate the magnitude of feats that can be performed (I.E. Scarlet Witch being a more potent magic user in DC universe than she is in the Marvel Universe. I know shes not in this fight, but wanted to bring up her on panel feat showing that there is a discrepancy between universes. What one character can do in the DC universe is not necessarily something they can replicate in the Marvel Universe, due to the laws of each of their realities being different).


Since OP did not specify a direct location other than the Arena, I'm going to go with a scenario where the all the characters are operating under the power limits of their respective universe, which does impact Marvel's ability to do damage. With that being said, I think the Avengers would have a hard time winning in any of the scenarios listed. Based on the roster selections, JLA has 3 characters (Superman, WW, and MH) who can KO anyone on that Avengers roster, without it being an outlying feat (a feat that is above the character's normal presented power level). I would argue that the Avengers only have 1 character (Thor) who could reasonably KO anyone on the JLA side (possibly Hulk, depending on the version of Hulk).

Namor has zero chance against Manhunter or Diana. I also think he would most likely lose to Flash and GL as well. Iron Man would be a wild card as his defense showings vary greatly. His defense is at times weak enough that even Batman could incapacitate him, but there are times where he can tank blows from someone as potent as Diana. One could theorize that Tony could take out Diana or Kyle if he's matched up against them, but Flash would be his weakness. With the durability and versatility advantages of Superman, WW, and Manhunter, I think they carry JLA to victories in all 3 scenarios.


I think the scenario is much more even if you switch out Namor and Quicksilver for Black Panther and Wanda or some other powerhouses. Depending on what characters you replace those two with, the Avengers could take the advantage based on battle tactics/intelligence or energy manipulation abilities.

Welcome to the forum.

Just to note, characters are considered to have the consistent high end feats and abilities they have in their stories. In other words, the Flash is just as fast in the arena and in the Marvel Universe as in DC even though the Speed Force is a DC Universe thing.

[Cronus]

Grant Morrison's JLA (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash [Wally West], Green Lantern [Kyle Rayner] and Aquaman)


Avengers (Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Hulk, Namor and Quicksilver)


1) Khazen arena
a. With speedsters

As mentioned above, we go by consistent high end feats for each combatant. Based on that, Wally West solos the Avengers.

b. Without speeders

Avengers should take it. Thor is mod ruled a bullet timer, which gives him the drop on Rayner (unless Kyle has autoshields?), Batman and Aquaman, all non speedsters.

2) Standard resources (Watchtower, Avengers mansion)
a. with speedsters
b. without speedsters

Having difficulty remembering what defenses each had?

[Captain Morgan]

Kyle has autoshields now, but didn't during the Morrison run. Technically, though, if Those has mod ruled super speed wouldn't that remove him from the no speedster battle?

[Cronus]

Kyle has autoshields now, but didn't during the Morrison run. Technically, though, if Those has mod ruled super speed wouldn't that remove him from the no speedster battle?

Do we consider Spider-Man or Daredevil (bullet timers) speedsters? I didnt think so, but I've been wrong before.

[Sharpandpointies]

Do we consider Spider-Man or Daredevil (bullet timers) speedsters? I didnt think so, but I've been wrong before.

We're kind of in a nebulous area at that point.

'Speedster' is normally taken as someone who shows the genuine superspeed stuff, not 'just' bullet-timing (like you say). I guess, being picky, ANYTHING past the norm for a human is 'superspeed', but still.

If the point of 'I don't want to see speed' comes up, most of the time people get specific with 'speed equalized' or something along those lines.

...it IS a bit of a confusing situation. Personally, I would say the OP should define who is considered a speedster for the purpose of the thread.

[Beadle]

Kyle has autoshields now, but didn't during the Morrison run. Technically, though, if Those has mod ruled super speed wouldn't that remove him from the no speedster battle?

Yes, but what about These?

Also, there’s no Khazan fight that’s ‘without speedsters’. They’re fighting without ‘speeders’.

I’m not sure why they’d have needed speeders anyway, but whatever. At least it wasn’t without Speedo’s.

[Slade1]

Yes, but what about These?

Also, there’s no Khazan fight that’s ‘without speedsters’. They’re fighting without ‘speeders’.

I’m not sure why they’d have needed speeders anyway, but whatever. At least it wasn’t without Speedo’s.

Is spandex really that much better than Speedos?

[Beadle]

Is spandex really that much better than Speedos?

But it would be WITHOUT Speedos.

[Phoenixx9]

Yes, but what about These?

Also, there’s no Khazan fight that’s ‘without speedsters’. They’re fighting without ‘speeders’.

I’m not sure why they’d have needed speeders anyway, but whatever. At least it wasn’t without Speedo’s.

True, because anything flopping around at that speed can kill you outright! (Yikes!)