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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    It's a recurring thing that the X-Men fandom likes their characters to be lifted up by the downfall of non mutant characters, look at how this place treats the Avengers, Scarlet Witch, the Inhumans, I could go on but you get the point.
    In the case of Carol it's a mix of the above along with people wanting her to be nothing more than a catalyst for Rogue getting strength and flight, or people who have a pretty need to see Carol beaten and depowered.
    I know X-Fans don't like No More Mutants, but I can't really get into the whole "Scarlet Witch is evil" thing when Magneto does worse all the time yet gets welcomed back.

    I'll be honest, Carol was bland in the movie, but so was Rogue in the Fox-Men, and at least Carol got to actually do something. Plus while she had only like 3 seconds in Endgame, I like her fight with Thanos. I hope to see Carol be improved on in CM2 with Kamala and Monica.

    Although honestly, if Rogue did beat up Carol, I think Monica and Kamala would just beat her up back, and I don't know if that's a good look for Rogue, especially considering how well liked Carol is within the MCU.

  2. #152
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    It's a recurring thing that the X-Men fandom likes their characters to be lifted up by the downfall of non mutant characters, look at how this place treats the Avengers, Scarlet Witch, the Inhumans, I could go on but you get the point.
    You keep making all this false case about the xmen fandom, as a person who is in the fandom, I find that disrespectful

    look at how this place treats the Avengers, Scarlet Witch, the Inhumans, I could go on but you get the point.
    In the case of Carol it's a mix of the above along with people wanting her to be nothing more than a catalyst for Rogue getting strength and flight, or people who have a pretty need to see Carol beaten and depowered.

    How are they treated? I have been in the xmen fandom for years, apart from scarlet witch we dont even know who some of this characters were, we only know them from their movies and even their movies, we dont really take seriously because xmen comics are comics not movies. if you saw any xmen fan that was treating those characters badly, maybe it is because the xmen fan did not want to be forced to care about them because of movie rights issues when it comes to comics.

    dont blame x-fans. blame Marvel for playing bad politics.


    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    This board has an anti-avengers bias, lol. The avenagers are ‘the man’ and don’t do enough to help mutants (even though most of that is the separate nature of the books) and the X-men are fighting the man end the corrupt system. There’s also an element of thinking marvel has been acting ‘unfairly’. When marvel started their big push of making carol their premier female character, Rogue (and Storm and Jean and Emma) were already more popular than her, so why push Carol constantly instead of the others (because of movie rights basically)

    Me personally, I go more with SR’s opinion. I’d like to see that arc in the movies. But there are others who’d love to see carol taken down and mutant girl take her place
    Nahhh, I don't see this as the issue. Not to mention how illogical it is. Captain marvel 2 does not need rogue. her first movie did a billion. the issue is rogue now has so much as an xmen character that most dont see it as necessary she has to be in captain marvel 2 and absorb her powers.

    with the movie right issue, x-fans only started caring a bit when they were trying to force other marvel characters on xmen characters which was ridiculous from marvel's part. they should not be doing that.

    if i had my way, i rather not have carol and rogue meet because MCU is already too much about that.

    x-fans are not anti-avengers, they just love to mind their good business in the x-men universe that is honestly the most intresting marvel universe apart from Spiderman's universe. that is not been anti-anything.

    at this point . its just propaganda and some brainwashing scheme on many old nerd comic fans like me to be called an anti-avenger because not everyone is onboard with the connect 4 of these movies that leads to the avengers films.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-03-2021 at 11:05 AM.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    You keep making all this false case about the xmen fandom, as a person who is in the fandom, I find that disrespectful






    How are they treated? I have been in the xmen fandom for years, apart from scarlet witch we dont even know who some of this characters were, we only know them from their movies and even their movies, we dont really take seriously because xmen comics are comics not movies. if you saw any xmen fan that was treating those characters badly, maybe it is because the xmen fan did not want to be forced to care about them because of movie rights issues when it comes to comics.

    dont blame x-fans. blame Marvel for playing bad politics.




    Nahhh, I don't see this as the issue. Not to mention how illogical it is. Captain marvel 2 does not need rogue. her first movie did a billion. the issue is rogue now has so much as an xmen character that most dont see it as necessary she has to be in captain marvel 2 and absorb her powers.

    with the movie right issue, x-fans only started caring a bit when they were trying to force other marvel characters on xmen characters which was ridiculous from marvel's part. they should not be doing that.

    if i had my way, i rather not have carol and rogue meet because MCU is already too much about that.

    x-fans are not anti-avengers, they just love to mind their good business in the x-men universe that is honestly the most intresting marvel universe apart from Spiderman's universe. that is not been anti-anything.

    at this point . its just propaganda and some brainwashing scheme on many old nerd comic fans like me to be called an anti-avenger because not everyone is onboard with the connect 4 of these movies that leads to the avengers films.
    Um, propaganda?

    I'm new to this site so I'm not sure about the history between the patrons of this site.

    By bad politics, do you mean what Ike Perlmutter did to the X-Men comics? Because I agree that was wrong.

    But I can't say X-Men is more interesting. I think the Avengers/Guardians side is way more interesting.

  4. #154
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Um, propaganda?

    I'm new to this site so I'm not sure about the history between the patrons of this site.
    yeah it feels like propaganda, many who favour stand alone movies which means rogue not having to be in CM 2 are quickly called been anti-avengers because avengers is the ultimate crossover connect 4 movies, but for some of us, that is not our thing. X-Men also has been written best to be it's own universe moslty.

    With the rogue absorbing carol thing , I saw that more as a freak accident than a daily xmen event.

    By bad politics, do you mean what Ike Perlmutter did to the X-Men comics? Because I agree that was wrong.
    Yeah he was but I never cared much for him.


    But I can't say X-Men is more interesting. I think the Avengers/Guardians side is way more interesting.
    And that is your prerogative, but this is an xmen forum though, not only that X-Men along with spiderman if you remove them from marvel they can function well even better away from that marvel , they don't need MCU. that is why most of us find their worlds the most interesting.

    for xmen , it's deeper than under 3 hour movies that is charmed soley on movie crossovers between characters like rogue and carol, which is the defining thing for Avengers/GOTG but for xmen is about 70 years of great mythological world building of the series that extend to comics, books, video games and cartoons and social commentary.

    The Avengers/GOTG stuff brought into xmen for many xmen fans is diluting a lot only because of movies , and that is bad.

    Carol does not need rogue, at this point from a comic book movie POV. Rogue showing up only to absorb carol in Capitan marvel 2 wont be anything new. Rogue's storyline in X-Men 1 will age better than that because that is a comic book character who was written as a human character, not an action figure.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-03-2021 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #155
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Um, propaganda?

    I'm new to this site so I'm not sure about the history between the patrons of this site.

    By bad politics, do you mean what Ike Perlmutter did to the X-Men comics? Because I agree that was wrong.

    But I can't say X-Men is more interesting. I think the Avengers/Guardians side is way more interesting.
    While I’ve always found the X-Men more interesting in the comics, I generally enjoy the MCU and what they’ve done with non-mutant characters. Of course the X-fans with the biggest hate-boners for the rest of Marvel are the most vocal, that doesn’t represent everyone else who either doesn’t care or who like both.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    yeah it feels like propaganda, many who favour stand alone movies which means rogue not having to be in CM 2 are quickly called been anti-avengers because avengers is the ultimate crossover connect 4 movies, but for some of us, that is not our thing. X-Men also has been written best to be it's own universe moslty.

    With the rogue absorbing carol thing , I saw that more as a freak accident than a daily xmen event.



    Yeah he was but I never cared much for him.



    And that is your prerogative, but this is an xmen forum though, not only that X-Men along with spiderman if you remove them from marvel they can function well even better away from that marvel , they don't need MCU. that is why most of us find their worlds the most interesting.

    for xmen , it's deeper than under 3 hour movies that is charmed soley on movie crossovers between characters like rogue and carol, which is the defining thing for Avengers/GOTG but for xmen is about 70 years of great mythological world building of the series that extend to comics, books, video games and cartoons and social commentary.

    The Avengers/GOTG stuff brought into xmen for many xmen fans is diluting a lot only because of movies , and that is bad.

    Carol does not need rogue, at this point from a comic book movie POV. Rogue showing up only to absorb carol in Capitan marvel 2 wont be anything new. Rogue's storyline in X-Men 1 will age better than that because that is a comic book character who was written as a human character, not an action figure.
    I don't think Carol needs Rogue either. But I've seen more X-Fans wanting Rogue to be in CM2 than Avengers fans.

    I like the interconnected universe. I like seeing heroes from one movie or show appear in another. I feel like I know the individual characters in the MCU way more than in the Fox-Men universe as well.
    Last edited by Mik; 03-03-2021 at 11:52 AM.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    While I’ve always found the X-Men more interesting in the comics, I generally enjoy the MCU and what they’ve done with non-mutant characters. Of course the X-fans with the biggest hate-boners for the rest of Marvel are the most vocal, that doesn’t represent everyone else who either doesn’t care or who like both.
    I like the X-Men just fine, but the soap-opera behavior of the love triangles is not something I care for. I enjoy the interconnectedness of the Avengers world, and I like how many of the Avengers have more complex power sets than the X-Men, but again, that's a personal preference. It doesn't mean the X-Men aren't good.

    I don't know if X-fans really hate the Avengers and their fans, but I have sensed some antipathy. That could just be my experience. I think X-men fans are right to dislike how Perlmutter treated the X-Men. But I think even aside from that the direction the Avengers are going in now is better.

  8. #158
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I like the X-Men just fine, but the soap-opera behavior of the love triangles is not something I care for. I enjoy the interconnectedness of the Avengers world, and I like how many of the Avengers have more complex power sets than the X-Men, but again, that's a personal preference. It doesn't mean the X-Men aren't good.

    I don't know if X-fans really hate the Avengers and their fans, but I have sensed some antipathy. That could just be my experience. I think X-men fans are right to dislike how Perlmutter treated the X-Men. But I think even aside from that the direction the Avengers are going in now is better.
    About the complex power set, x-men has that more in an great abundance, this can be proven objectively

    remember xmen are mutants, their powers even the worst ones can be explained by some pseudo science and at their best by good science hypothesis. they also have other great stuff like secondary mutations and omega mutants.

    Remember it was because of rogue's powers and the lack of control over it after she absorbed carol that made that storyline more interesting . she only went to xavier to help her control those powers.

    Avengers is more middle-ground fantasy and external contributions. building iron suits and super serums and exposure to gamma rays. these things are cool but mutants. is a bit more grounded, they are born with this powers and sometimes it evolves in different stages

    I fully agree that those that do prefer avengers more is because of the interconnected universe but if you have been around this comic characters for years maybe 5 decades like some of my relatives, spiderman, xmen, batman, interconnection is not a big thing to us. we see their worlds spiderman, xmen, batman more as a middle-earth or wizarding world type of universe in an omiunverse.

    No, xmen fans dont hate avengers, they just dont want avengers forced on them because of movies when that has not been the case since forever in comics.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-03-2021 at 12:16 PM.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    About the complex power set, x-men has that more in an great abundance, this can be proven objectively

    remember xmen are mutants, their powers even the worst ones can be explained by some pseudo science and at their best by good science hypothesis. they also have other great stuff like secondary mutations and omega mutants.

    Remember it was because of rogue's powers and the lack of control over it after she absorbed carol that made that storyline more interesting . she only went to xavier to help her control those powers.

    Avengers is more middle-ground fantasy and external contributions. building iron suits and super serums and exposure to gamma rays. these things are cool but mutants. is a bit more grounded, they are born with this powers and sometimes it evolves in different stages

    I fully agree that those that do prefer avengers more is because if the interconnected universe but if you have been around this comic characters for years maybe 5 decades like some of my relatives, spiderman, xmen, batman, interconnection is not a big thing to us. we see their worlds spiderman, xmen, batman more as a middle-earth or wizarding world type of universe in an omiunverse.

    No, xmen fans dont hate avengers, they just dont want avengers forced on them because of movies when that has not been the case since forever in comics.
    I should explain myself. I mean the average Avenger has multiple powers while the X-Men often only have one or two. If a character's personality interests me, like Hulk, Wolverine, or Nightcrawler, I don't really care about the limited power set, but someone who doesn't have a personality that interests me, like Cyclops or Gambit, I don't really think overcomes the one power they have.

    I'm not exactly sure how Avengers are being forced onto X-Men.

  10. #160
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    I definitely don't think Carol needs Rogue per se, but I would say Rogue (and Mystique) is Carol's most compelling villain, and the MCU has a big problem with compelling villains we are interested in. I also think the idea of a teenage girl being such a pain in the ass for the so-called strongest Avenger would be a very interesting story.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealWashout View Post
    I definitely don't think Carol needs Rogue per se, but I would say Rogue (and Mystique) is Carol's most compelling villain, and the MCU has a big problem with compelling villains we are interested in. I also think the idea of a teenage girl being such a pain in the ass for the so-called strongest Avenger would be a very interesting story.
    Isn't Rogue more of a hero though? I thought "Moonstone" was the dark Captain Marvel anyway.

    The MCU has had lame villains, no doubt. But I kinda like the hero focus because we see these heroes in several movies. Plus many of the villains they used were nobodies in the comics too.

    I do wish Ultron was better done, though

    If Rogue does knock out Captain Marvel, do you think Spectrum and Miss Marvel would attack her back?

  12. #162
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Isn't Rogue more of a hero though? I thought "Moonstone" was the dark Captain Marvel anyway.

    The MCU has had lame villains, no doubt. But I kinda like the hero focus because we see these heroes in several movies. Plus many of the villains they used were nobodies in the comics too.

    I do wish Ultron was better done, though

    If Rogue does knock out Captain Marvel, do you think Spectrum and Miss Marvel would attack her back?
    Rogue is obviously a hero now but started as a villain. I’m for Rogue and Carol meeting (even if it’s not in CM 2) because it jumpstarts Rogue’s redemptive arc and could be an interesting arc for Carol as she tries to regain her power (both physically and psychologically).

  13. #163
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    It will be best for carol to have a chance at another movie or movies. her first film didn't really do anything impressive, i once said her movie's success and somewhat good reception was more about luck and the MCU establishment set in place than actual film merit.

    MCU has yet to starch the surface of carol .

    And I say this not as a carol fan but it does not mean I wish bad for the character.

    In the MCU it is just too soon for rogue to take her powers away.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-03-2021 at 02:45 PM.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Rogue is obviously a hero now but started as a villain. I’m for Rogue and Carol meeting (even if it’s not in CM 2) because it jumpstarts Rogue’s redemptive arc and could be an interesting arc for Carol as she tries to regain her power (both physically and psychologically).
    I could see that happening. Carol gets a temporary nerf and is emotionally messed by Rogue's psyche, then seeks revenge, but ultimately works out their differences.

    While I'm personally not super into Rogue (don't dislike her, just not into her), I wouldn't be opposed to this. My only problem is we already had a movie with Carol suffering from mental disruption and not fully using her powers.

    Although, would it be odd to have Rogue be too young in the MCU?

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    It will be best for carol to have a chance at another movie or movies. her first film didn't really do anything impressive, i once said her movie's success and somewhat good reception was more about luck and the MCU establishment set in place than actual film merit.

    MCU has yet to starch the surface of carol .

    And I say this not as a carol fan but it does not mean I wish bad for the character.

    In the MCU it is just too soon for rogue to take her powers away.
    I think her film was ok but could have been better. It felt too much like a Phase 1 or 2 movie.

    I do feel it might be too soon to nerf Carol after seeing her be mostly nerfed in the first movie.

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