Captain Marvel 2: Welcome Rogue, hope you survive the experience

[CosmiComic]

Introducing Rogue via Captain Marvel, besides honoring the characters history in the source material, is a way to handle the gross overpowering of the Danvers character so that she can be written into plots as more than a deus ex cosmic device that she has been so far, as well as weaves mutant characters in the MCU in an organic way.
Its arguable that it's DANVERS that is important to ROGUE'S story as the source of her flying brick powers that made that character her peak famous. Efforts to duplicate those powers via other character have failed and the absorption powered Rogue has never been as popular.
So..everybody wins if they go this way in the MCU...but it's looking less like they will given the castings for CAPTAIN MARVEL 2...

Um, I don't think nerfing Captain Marvel is necessary. Maybe the story can take a different course

[ChronoRogue]

If we're not doing the memory wipe storyline again, there needs to be some cost to Carol's character to make the confrontation matter to both women. The entire reason it was devastating to both and influenced so many of their decisions afterwards is because it carried weight.

Otherwise, why do the storyline at all? Rogue doesn't need to absorb Carol if she wants flying brick powers; there are plenty of options out there.

From my point of view I don't think Marvel should do the amnesia storyline... exactly. The long-term of effect towards Carol wasn't losing her memories, it was the emotional disconnect from them. Make Rogue an emotional and almost literal vampire in a sense, that steals empathy and happiness from Carol's memories. It's twists the story-line but keeps the point the same and pushes Rogue to become more self-aware.

Though as it is many people have stated Brie's Carol is very robotic... CM2 will need to play up her humanity.

[CosmiComic]

Though as it is many people have stated Brie's Carol is very robotic... CM2 will need to play up her humanity.

That's why the amnesia storyline may not be a good idea. We already saw her mostly brainwashed in the first movie, so we barely got to know her and she came off as underdeveloped. She needs more remembering who she is, and less forgetting it, in CM2.

Although I don't find her to be much more stoic than Captain America, to be honest.

[ChronoRogue]

That's why the amnesia storyline may not be a good idea. We already saw her mostly brainwashed in the first movie, so we barely got to know her and she came off as underdeveloped. She needs more remembering who she is, and less forgetting it, in CM2.

Although I don't find her to be much more stoic than Captain America, to be honest.

You don't need to do the amnesia story-line. The emotional disconnection is different. It's not about forgetting who you were but having those memories and a hard feeling of apathy. But yes, Brie being able to sell it is a problem.

[CosmiComic]

You don't need to do the amnesia story-line. The emotional disconnection is different. It's not about forgetting who you were but having those memories and a hard feeling of apathy. But yes, Brie being able to sell it is a problem.

I haven't seen her in many movies so I can't speak to her acting as a whole. But the direction didn't help at all for us to get to know her like other MCU heroes.

But I think they should move more towards an emotional story of her making connections with other characters, so we can actually see who she is.

[Brian B]

That's true. Why was that storyline ever allowed?

Supposedly, Jim Shooter cancelled the original plot which was to have the Supreme Intelligence impregnate Ms. Marvel, presumably via artificial means, because it was too close to the plot of an issue of “What If.” Note that is only a marginally better idea.

Then there was supposedly a story conference and they put that issue of Avengers 200 together. Plot is credited to Shooter, Michelinie, Bob Layton and George Perez.

Google “Avengers 200,” “Avengers 200 Shooter” or “Avengers 200 Strickland” and you’ll run across a lot on it, including some outstanding critical commentary from fan Carol Strickland. Shooter’s own blog on the matter is a mea culpa and he says he does not remember it, though admits it is “heinous.”

It’s been stated in this thread dozens of times now the Rogue storyline could be adapted to start up Rogue’s redemptive arc AND make Carol less OP for a movie while giving her an interesting storyline as she deals with the loss of some of her powers.

Marvel is largely family oriented, they’re not going to include a sexual assault storyline in one of their movies and especially not one that is so problematic.

That’s true that Disney is family oriented and rape storylines probably won’t happen. But then, why bother to bring Rogue into Captain Marvel’s orbit at all in the MCU? Rogue’s presence in Danver’s life was only ever as a deux ex machina to let Claremont unleash on what they had done to Ms. Marvel. Given that and given that Marvel is now largely trying to make Danvers take Mar-vell’s place, and doing quite well at that, then why include Rogue in Captain Marvel?

[Kingdom X]

Supposedly, Jim Shooter cancelled the original plot which was to have the Supreme Intelligence impregnate Ms. Marvel, presumably via artificial means, because it was too close to the plot of an issue of “What If.” Note that is only a marginally better idea.

Then there was supposedly a story conference and they put that issue of Avengers 200 together. Plot is credited to Shooter, Michelinie, Bob Layton and George Perez.

Google “Avengers 200,” “Avengers 200 Shooter” or “Avengers 200 Strickland” and you’ll run across a lot on it, including some outstanding critical commentary from fan Carol Strickland. Shooter’s own blog on the matter is a mea culpa and he says he does not remember it, though admits it is “heinous.”


That’s true that Disney is family oriented and rape storylines probably won’t happen. But then, why bother to bring Rogue into Captain Marvel’s orbit at all in the MCU? Rogue’s presence in Danver’s life was only ever as a deux ex machina to let Claremont unleash on what they had done to Ms. Marvel. Given that and given that Marvel is now largely trying to make Danvers take Mar-vell’s place, and doing quite well at that, then why include Rogue in Captain Marvel?

That might have been the original intent, but Claremont certainly did a lot of interesting things with it afterwards. Even the animated series adaption hit me in the feels.

[CosmiComic]

Supposedly, Jim Shooter cancelled the original plot which was to have the Supreme Intelligence impregnate Ms. Marvel, presumably via artificial means, because it was too close to the plot of an issue of “What If.” Note that is only a marginally better idea.

Then there was supposedly a story conference and they put that issue of Avengers 200 together. Plot is credited to Shooter, Michelinie, Bob Layton and George Perez.

Google “Avengers 200,” “Avengers 200 Shooter” or “Avengers 200 Strickland” and you’ll run across a lot on it, including some outstanding critical commentary from fan Carol Strickland. Shooter’s own blog on the matter is a mea culpa and he says he does not remember it, though admits it is “heinous.”


That’s true that Disney is family oriented and rape storylines probably won’t happen. But then, why bother to bring Rogue into Captain Marvel’s orbit at all in the MCU? Rogue’s presence in Danver’s life was only ever as a deux ex machina to let Claremont unleash on what they had done to Ms. Marvel. Given that and given that Marvel is now largely trying to make Danvers take Mar-vell’s place, and doing quite well at that, then why include Rogue in Captain Marvel?

Exactly. And I'm a bit cautious about using Carol to prop up Rogue in the MCU. Carol has a lot more potential and Rogue already had a few movies, although they didn't portray her as well.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Maybe the Shiar might be more of interesting match? She's a power fantasy so just give her some cool characters to fight.

Like I just want Thor to fight Apocalypse across the ages. I love drama but sometimes you just want a romp.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Exactly. And I'm a bit cautious about using Carol to prop up Rogue in the MCU. Carol has a lot more potential and Rogue already had a few movies, although they didn't portray her as well.

The Rogue vs Carol battle is a wonderful drama that generated years worth of stories in the comics. And I think it would work even better in the movies where Carol has a much higher profile than in the comics at a time (let's face it, she was in the Avengers for a while but she was barely C-list as Ms Marvel)

How will one of the galaxy's most powerful heroes cope with losing her powers or having them drastically reduced? Not to mention her memories which had eluded her for so long? Will she find the strength to go on? Will Monica inherit the Captain Marvel mantle?

What's going to happen to young mutant Rogue after she absorbs powers beyond her control and is tormented by memories of a life she never lived? How will the superhero community and specifically the Avengers react to it? Will the X-Men step in to help their fellow mutant even if that could bring them into conflict with the Avengers?

This just off the top of my head, but really the stories practically write themselves once you bring Rogue into Carol's life.

[CosmiComic]

The Rogue vs Carol battle is a wonderful drama that generated years worth of stories in the comics. And I think it would work even better in the movies where Carol has a much higher profile than in the comics at a time (let's face it, she was in the Avengers for a while but she was barely C-list as Ms Marvel)

How will one of the galaxy's most powerful heroes cope with losing her powers or having them drastically reduced? Not to mention her memories which had eluded her for so long? Will she find the strength to go on? Will Monica inherit the Captain Marvel mantle?

What's going to happen to young mutant Rogue after she absorbs powers beyond her control and is tormented by memories of a life she never lived? How will the superhero community and specifically the Avengers react to it? Will the X-Men step in to help their fellow mutant even if that could bring them into conflict with the Avengers?

This just off the top of my head, but really the stories practically write themselves once you bring Rogue into Carol's life.

Wouldn't she have been more B-list?

But anyway, you make some good points, I'm just not necessarily in the camp of nerfing her because apparently there's no other story ideas.

Although with other heroes in the movie, I doubt Rogue would escape unscathed.

[ChronoRogue]

Wouldn't she have been more B-list?

But anyway, you make some good points, I'm just not necessarily in the camp of nerfing her because apparently there's no other story ideas.

Although with other heroes in the movie, I doubt Rogue would escape unscathed.

This is why you need to read more Rogue in the comics! If your frame of reference of Rogue is the movies, you are not going to understand the character.

Rogue's very first appearance she wiped the floor with the Avengers. (Captain America, Thor, Spider-Woman, Vision and Wonder Man iirc)

She was built up as a serious threat to the team.




I doubt Carol or the Avengers will expect Rogue and that makes her incredibly dangerous.

[CosmiComic]

This is why you need to read more Rogue in the comics! If your frame of reference of Rogue is the movies, you are not going to understand the character.

Rogue's very first appearance she wiped the floor with the Avengers. (Captain America, Thor, Spider-Woman, Vision and Wonder Man iirc)

She was built up as a serious threat to the team.




I doubt Carol or the Avengers will expect Rogue and that makes her incredibly dangerous.

Doesn't that make a bit OP? Plus it looked like she sexually assaulted Captain America

[ChronoRogue]

Doesn't that make a bit OP? Plus it looked like she sexually assaulted Captain America

Rogue's always a bit OP but that fight might have gone a bit differently if they were more aware of her powers at the time. Anyway she was created to be a powerhouse and counterpoint to CM in the X-Men.

As for sexually assaulting... I suppose? Rogue's always had a habit of kissing people unsolicited, which in real life can be a bit problematic. For the character, its a sort of frustrated way of expressing her sexuality that she can't normally because of her lack of control of her powers (at the time). It's something that she doesn't do very often since the 80s though, outside of certain friends who don't seem to mind (ala Bishop).

[CosmiComic]

Rogue's always a bit OP but that fight might have gone a bit differently if they were more aware of her powers at the time. Anyway she was created to be a powerhouse and counterpoint to CM in the X-Men.

As for sexually assaulting... I suppose? Rogue's always had a habit of kissing people unsolicited, which in real life can be a bit problematic. For the character, its a sort of frustrated way of expressing her sexuality that she can't normally because of her lack of control of her powers (at the time). It's something that she doesn't do very often since the 80s though, outside of certain friends who don't seem to mind (ala Bishop).

Ok. I just found that kinda creepy and inappropriate, but it's good they've moved on.

I mention OP because I've seen complaints against Captain Marvel for being OP and beating everyone up, so I'm wondering what's different here.