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  1. #1
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    Default What is happening to the Marvel Universe

    Has anyone else noticed that most of the Marvel universe seems to be becoming really dark and morally corrupt?

    I mean look at FF Mr. Fantastic has chipped his son so he can't go to Krakoa, Professor X is working with all the evil mutants just ignoring all their pasts, all the mutants are freely going to a country without any checks or balances or laws other then the ones a self appointed board of mostly villains decides to put in place, the agents of atlas are just protecting a country of the ultra rich and corrupt who are holding a sentient being prisoner, and the other governments of the world are being held blackmail by the mutants as the avengers are do nothing. Going back to the "country of Pan" these open boarders to anyone with enough money also means that drugs and human trafficking or going to be completely out of hand.

    In the past the Marvel universe looked at things a bit more deeply and put some effort into making things more complex. All i'm seeing of this is the Agents of Atlas looking a little at refugees and ignoring everything else.

    what do others think?

  2. #2
    Incredible Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    Dude, that's been happening since the mid 90's.

  3. #3
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    The Marvel universe at the end of the day has always had a morally dubious tone as a great deal of heroes (and more importantly the creative teams) are just people. There's a lot to unpack there but the Marvel universe deals with a lot of messed up stuff because a lot of our heroes are kind of assholes and a lot of the creative talent tends to be a little blood thirsty, not knowing how to address an issue and just leaves it hanging anyways, or bringing an issue up and not knowing one bit about the issue itself. It's primarily a creative team issue which gets brought on given that the Marvel universe is meant to be full of "regular" people.
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  4. #4
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    The Marvel universe at the end of the day has always had a morally dubious tone as a great deal of heroes (and more importantly the creative teams) are just people. There's a lot to unpack there but the Marvel universe deals with a lot of messed up stuff because a lot of our heroes are kind of assholes and a lot of the creative talent tends to be a little blood thirsty, not knowing how to address an issue and just leaves it hanging anyways, or bringing an issue up and not knowing one bit about the issue itself. It's primarily a creative team issue which gets brought on given that the Marvel universe is meant to be full of "regular" people.
    Yeah, I think if you look at the world that Jack and Stan first created, it actually was quite dark. It arguably lighted up a bit in the 80's or so... but I think around the time Quesada was Editor in chief (I sometimes think of it as the Bendis era, though that perhaps gives him too much credit) a bit more realism and darkness sort of crept back in there.

    I think once the Ultimate Universe (a somewhat darker more realistic version of the MU) started generating a lot of buzz, the main 616 started following suit almost to the point where the Ultimate Universe started feeling somewhat redundent.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Skeleton View Post
    Dude, that's been happening since the mid 90's.
    Indeed it has been, sadly. Such changes are a sign of our troubled times.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #6
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    agree, but seems they have gotten much worse at even keeping the characters following their own moral standings.

  7. #7
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    oh they have always been morally dark at times but recently it seems all are taking the same turn and even drifting from the characters structure that has been built over the years. except maybe Mr. Fantastic he has always been a bit of an ass

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    i agree that it has always been a dark and the people are more human. This is actually why i prefer. I just feel recently the characters aren't true to themselves anymore. they all seem to have just checked out and going in random directions.

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    I am afraid you may be right.

  10. #10
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKlegogeek View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that most of the Marvel universe seems to be becoming really dark and morally corrupt?

    I mean look at FF Mr. Fantastic has chipped his son so he can't go to Krakoa, Professor X is working with all the evil mutants just ignoring all their pasts, all the mutants are freely going to a country without any checks or balances or laws other then the ones a self appointed board of mostly villains decides to put in place, the agents of atlas are just protecting a country of the ultra rich and corrupt who are holding a sentient being prisoner, and the other governments of the world are being held blackmail by the mutants as the avengers are do nothing. Going back to the "country of Pan" these open boarders to anyone with enough money also means that drugs and human trafficking or going to be completely out of hand.

    In the past the Marvel universe looked at things a bit more deeply and put some effort into making things more complex. All i'm seeing of this is the Agents of Atlas looking a little at refugees and ignoring everything else.

    what do others think?
    To add to that, they're also about to ban the kids from being superheroes.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKlegogeek View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that most of the Marvel universe seems to be becoming really dark and morally corrupt?

    I mean look at FF Mr. Fantastic has chipped his son so he can't go to Krakoa, Professor X is working with all the evil mutants just ignoring all their pasts, all the mutants are freely going to a country without any checks or balances or laws other then the ones a self appointed board of mostly villains decides to put in place, the agents of atlas are just protecting a country of the ultra rich and corrupt who are holding a sentient being prisoner, and the other governments of the world are being held blackmail by the mutants as the avengers are do nothing. Going back to the "country of Pan" these open boarders to anyone with enough money also means that drugs and human trafficking or going to be completely out of hand.

    In the past the Marvel universe looked at things a bit more deeply and put some effort into making things more complex. All i'm seeing of this is the Agents of Atlas looking a little at refugees and ignoring everything else.

    what do others think?
    It seems to me that the AoA were actually trying to infiltrate and investigate with them defending the people...not the institution...but that is just my $0.02.

    And as far as Reed chipping Franklin...he is his father and it is his responsibility to protect his child. I see that as no different than parents who track their kids phones and monitor their social media. And if a parent says you can't go to such and such...you don't get to go.

    I think one of the things we seem to forget in the MU...there are a whole lot of super powered minors running around putting themselves in danger wither with (Nova) or without (Ms Marvel) their parents knowledge as if this would be a perfectly acceptable thing IRL.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 02-09-2020 at 06:42 AM.

  12. #12
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    About that, anyone here read DC's Robin from 2004? His father finds out his identity and makes him quit. spoilers:
    His girlfriend Spoiler takes over as Robin, but gets fired. Then she accidentally causes the War Games arc, and dies at the end (or so we're meant to think at the time - it later got retconned into her faking it). At the same time, the Identity Crisis event is going on, during which his father gets murdered by a supervillain who'd somehow learned Tim's secret. Two bereavements in quick succession, and it all started when his father found out his secret identity.
    end of spoilers

    Has any Marvel kid hero suffered in a similar way?
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  13. #13
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    Meh, I remember the Armor Wars in the eighties, when Tony flipped out and attacked all sorts of people he thought might be using stolen Stark technology, including Stingray, a fellow (part-time) Avenger whose battlesuit is made out of electrified shark cartilege (yeah, so *obviously* Starktech...), invaded Russia and (accidentally) killed one of their super-heroes, the Gremlin, and attacked Project Pegasus to destroy the Guardsman armors *that he had sold the US government!* And then lied to his fellow Avengers and claimed that it was someone else in the Iron Man armor that did those things. And that was back in the eighties. Cyclops bailed on his wife and newborn son to hook up with his resurrected ex. Wolverine stabbed a fellow X-Man in the heart because she was going to kill Selene (after he has killed how many people, for far, far less than what Selene has done?). Xavier snuck up behind Jean Grey, after Cyclops had talked her down from her Dark Phoenix rampage with the power of love, and blasted her by surprise, restarting a fight that could have destroyed the planet.

    Heroes been doing sketchy things since long before 'recently.'

    I'm sure someone who read more comics in the sixties and seventies can find equally sketchy examples.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    About that, anyone here read DC's Robin from 2004? His father finds out his identity and makes him quit. spoilers:
    His girlfriend Spoiler takes over as Robin, but gets fired. Then she accidentally causes the War Games arc, and dies at the end (or so we're meant to think at the time - it later got retconned into her faking it). At the same time, the Identity Crisis event is going on, during which his father gets murdered by a supervillain who'd somehow learned Tim's secret. Two bereavements in quick succession, and it all started when his father found out his secret identity.
    end of spoilers

    Has any Marvel kid hero suffered in a similar way?
    That's an unfortunate take on the whole concept.

    As kids got pushed out of the comics fandom by the collectors movement and the adultification of the medium, the characters that were created mostly for them to identify with have become victims to be exploited and not much else.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Meh, I remember the Armor Wars in the eighties, when Tony flipped out and attacked all sorts of people he thought might be using stolen Stark technology, including Stingray, a fellow (part-time) Avenger whose battlesuit is made out of electrified shark cartilege (yeah, so *obviously* Starktech...), invaded Russia and (accidentally) killed one of their super-heroes, the Gremlin, and attacked Project Pegasus to destroy the Guardsman armors *that he had sold the US government!* And then lied to his fellow Avengers and claimed that it was someone else in the Iron Man armor that did those things. And that was back in the eighties. Cyclops bailed on his wife and newborn son to hook up with his resurrected ex. Wolverine stabbed a fellow X-Man in the heart because she was going to kill Selene (after he has killed how many people, for far, far less than what Selene has done?). Xavier snuck up behind Jean Grey, after Cyclops had talked her down from her Dark Phoenix rampage with the power of love, and blasted her by surprise, restarting a fight that could have destroyed the planet.

    Heroes been doing sketchy things since long before 'recently.'

    I'm sure someone who read more comics in the sixties and seventies can find equally sketchy examples.
    Vault...not Project Pegasus...and IIRC...Stane mass produced the Guardsmen for the Government. And did not lie to the Avengers...they knew it was him all along...he told SHIELD it was someone else...and the Avengers did not rat him out thereby making them accomplices to his crimes.

    edit...just double checked my AW trade...Stane mass produced the Guardsmen. Tony designed the Mandroids for SHIELD.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 02-09-2020 at 01:08 PM.

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