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  1. #76
    Ceiling Belkar stabs you GozertheGozarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Alot of people in here acting like they understand conservatives based on what they are told are negative qualities.

    that would be like putting all liberals in the same category the violent Antifa thugs who assault people and destroy property.
    All credibility lost.
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  2. #77

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    Already, the police-based Blue Bloods is kind of the show that the OP is hinting at. All it would take is an executive to give it the green light. Make it about an extended family of "duly deputized" crimefighters.

    Within the context of the times, the 1960s Batman show hewed to certain "conservative" tropes. It was very clear from various dialogue that Batman and Robin were not 'vigilantes'. All the mildly admonishing statements from Bruce/Batman to Robin/Dick about various topics.
    Last edited by Hypestyle; 02-10-2020 at 06:48 PM.

  3. #78
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    For all its supposed bias, I'm surprised at how Gotham City is run on BATWOMAN. The Crows are supposedly the good guys, yet they're a private police force using extreme para-military tactics. And they're Kate's family and friends. That seems extreme corporate right wing to me.

  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    For all its supposed bias, I'm surprised at how Gotham City is run on BATWOMAN. The Crows are supposedly the good guys, yet they're a private police force using extreme para-military tactics. And they're Kate's family and friends. That seems extreme corporate right wing to me.
    They're only private in the sense that they've been hired by the city; they still protect everyone as part of that contract. They're still publicly accountable and have the GCPD as their oversight.

    What "extreme paramilitary tactics"?
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  5. #80
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    "24" was the last action type show I thought leaned Conservative. (Despite featuring things like having a Black President)

    Torture = Ok
    Government = Corruption Everywhere
    Liberty vs. Security themes
    Muslims = Terrorists
    Idealists = Idiots, etc.
    I think of Agents of Shield as being right leaning. They hold people without due process for whatever length of time they please. Even the hacker character justifies it in the first season. "They don't have time".

    I realize that Republican and Democrat presidents have both ignored due process in regards to terrorism as well as practicing torture, but, on the level of the average citizen, conservatives have a tendency to justify it while liberals have a tendency to condemn it.

    You also have people like Mac and Yoyo who are solid Christians but they are not presented as heartless or condemnatory to others nor idiots.

    The show also tends to avoid social issues or at least any social issue that would be controversial to more than one person in thousands.
    Power with Girl is better.

  6. #81
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Hmmm, this has given me a lot to think on. Maybe what I'm wondering is if there could be a show where right-leaning audiences can watch and see a superhero that voices issues from their side? I'm still trying to think of what good conservative values are where the whole audience can admire the hero but still get a conservative vibe from the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    The Punisher was a pretty conservative leaning show. Even the version of Karen Page that interacted with him was pretty conservative, bragging about her gun and second amendment rights. I can't think of any other superhero shows with that vibe.
    The Punisher did come to mind when thinking of superhero shows that feel more right of center.

    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    Jefferson Pierce aka Black Lightning actually seems more conservative leaning to me in the tv show. There are Conservatives that have LGBT kids that and are accepting. Jefferson's non-conservative issue seems to be his civil liberties/equality views.
    If Jefferson were more of an "absolute authority" figure, he would feel more conservative to me, but things like him losing his position as principal turns him into the underdog fighting against "The Man".

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovelocust View Post
    A conservative hero has a villain like Joker from Joker. A liberal hero has a villain like Joker from Suicide Squad.
    That's a good comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    You are ignoring what the OP is asking for though I am not. He specifically mentioned Batwoman promoting civil rights and equality. Are there log cabin republicans? Sure. But even they would want some equality. How would you portray a LGBT character in the world the OP is looking for that doesnt come off as wanting equality?
    It's not that I'm saying what Batwoman is doing is a bad thing or that I want to see a show with the opposite values presented there. I'm wondering what issues a conservative hero would focus on the same way Batwoman promotes LGBT rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I was speaking specifically about the storyline in Supergirl where the President Marsdin was revealed to be an alien and removed...and the story was swept under the rug. That storyline should have continued with a federal agent (possibly a super powered one) appointed by the AG conducting an investigation into how it all happened, did anyone else know (as said above there is a point in which Alex and others become accomplices to the crime), and what sort of punishments for anyone found to be a party to the crime. Maybe you can resolve this with Marsdin lying and taking the heat herself to cover for others. But after the agent is told it is over...he implies to Alex and others he knows there is more to it and will be keeping an eye on them.

    As far as conservative representation...this agent could have been that. A constitutionalist who is not conducting a politically motivated witch hunt but trying to find the people responsible for the greatest political fraud ever perpetrated on the American people.

    But what do we get for 'conservative representation'?? Agent Liberty and the racist along with the corrupt president in the pocket of Lex Luthor.
    I wonder if that would have muddied up their message too much? It would have been an interesting angle to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    In a larger sense, the question of whether superheroes are 'conservatives' or 'liberals' has always amused me. They rarely ever fall neatly into either camp. This is partly because of the desire of generations of creators trying to avoid alienating one end of the political spectrum or the other. But also, its just the nature of the beast. Superheroes work outside the system, upholding an abstract concept of justice and doing the 'right thing' over the due process of law, which I suppose makes them 'liberal'. But ultimately their aim is to work outside the system in order to preserve the status quo and maintain law and order, which kinda makes them 'conservative'. On a personal level, a lot of superheroes tend to be altruistic and willing to help the less fortunate - but they're also typically more than prepared to come down hard on the less fortunate who've turned to crime.
    This is all true. Also the fact that they've existed for many generations and through many world events means superheroes can never be categorized in such a way. It seems like creators mostly want to show a sense of progressiveness and superheroes being at the forefront of changing times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I don't know if it would be right leaning, but I imagine that a Jonah Hex CW show, starring Johnathon Schaech, could appeal to people in "Red States"*--and I'd like it to have Rip Hunter, as well (if they can get Arthur Darvill to reprise his role). In the Arrowverse, Rip is supposed to have spent a good amount of time in the Old West, where he became friends with Hex--but we've never seen that chapter of his life explored at any length.
    I could see that working well with conservative audiences, but making it a period piece might be a bit of a cop out if it wants to appeal to modern conservatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Keep it vague about how conservative the character is, but emphasize the positive characteristics that both sides basically agree on.(there's gotta be something left in the middle of that ven diagram) Think about James Bond - they've been calling him "out-dated" and "a fossil" etc in the movies themselves for what - 20 years at this point? It's just accepted he's a bit of a relic and his attitudes aren't the most progressive, but those are overshadowed by him saving the world. The character can disagree with positions that are on the far end of both spectrums, so keep him/her right of center, but not all the way. Show that the character's viewpoints were born from experience, rather than simply aligning with any kind of dogma.
    I'd say Flash is somewhat like this, but I'm wondering if something to counter-balance the shows that look at modern issues from a liberal point of view would need something stronger and to take a solid stance on something.

    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    "24" was the last action type show I thought leaned Conservative. (Despite featuring things like having a Black President)

    Torture = Ok
    Government = Corruption Everywhere
    Liberty vs. Security themes
    Muslims = Terrorists
    Idealists = Idiots, etc.
    I never watched 24, the violence was a bit much for me, but it had the benefit of being a very pro-American program in a post 9/11 world. These days things might not be so easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    Already, the police-based Blue Bloods is kind of the show that the OP is hinting at. All it would take is an executive to give it the green light. Make it about an extended family of "duly deputized" crimefighters.

    Within the context of the times, the 1960s Batman show hewed to certain "conservative" tropes. It was very clear from various dialogue that Batman and Robin were not 'vigilantes'. All the mildly admonishing statements from Bruce/Batman to Robin/Dick about various topics.
    This is true. A conservative hero may be one that doesn't even have a secret identity and follows a chain of command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I think of Agents of Shield as being right leaning. They hold people without due process for whatever length of time they please. Even the hacker character justifies it in the first season. "They don't have time".

    I realize that Republican and Democrat presidents have both ignored due process in regards to terrorism as well as practicing torture, but, on the level of the average citizen, conservatives have a tendency to justify it while liberals have a tendency to condemn it.

    You also have people like Mac and Yoyo who are solid Christians but they are not presented as heartless or condemnatory to others nor idiots.

    The show also tends to avoid social issues or at least any social issue that would be controversial to more than one person in thousands.
    That's true. Agents of SHIELD manages to promote the idea of competent officials appointed by the government that don't address any hotbed issues.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    I never watched 24, the violence was a bit much for me, but it had the benefit of being a very pro-American program in a post 9/11 world. These days things might not be so easy.
    It not being easy isn't the problem, it was making propaganda for the government which didn't want to give any rights to anyone in their custody.

    This is true. A conservative hero may be one that doesn't even have a secret identity and follows a chain of command.
    That's not conservatism. It's possible to have a chain of command, whether it be from the government or a super-hero team and be liberal.

    That's true. Agents of SHIELD manages to promote the idea of competent officials appointed by the government that don't address any hotbed issues.
    One, half the time they're fighting corrupt government officials, including in America and two, acknowledging government officials aren't all terrible isn't being conservative. In fact, it's quite liberal since liberals believe that the government can be used to help people.

  8. #83
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    I don't think conservatism lends itself well to art. There's a simplicity to conservatism where stories need to have some type of complexity to be interesting. That simplicity is not a bad thing per se, but when I look at some of the positive ideals of conservatism like unfettered patriotism and a steadfast adherence to law and order unswayed by criminal intent, I don't see where an interesting show can come from that.

    Then there's the fact that most superheroes do tend to lean conservative. They're individuals working outside a government structure, often setting their own rules to tackle crime. Superheroes spend their lives living out the fantasy of "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." If you can't see that and are more concerned with the shows being pro-Civil Rights and Pro-LGBT... I don't know, man.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    Superheroes spend their lives living out the fantasy of "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." If you can't see that and are more concerned with the shows being pro-Civil Rights and Pro-LGBT... I don't know, man.
    Yeah, the concept of a lot of heroes is 'the cops / law / government *can't handle this* so we have to step up.'

    Granted, when 'this' is, like Galactus or an invasion of para-demons, they are quite right.

    But when they are just taking out muggers or declaring a war on organized crime (a la the Punisher) because 'the cops are crooked / incompetent,' then it's back to the same sort of 'government can't protect us, we need moar guns!' kind of logic. The nature of the power fantasy has been ultimately, 'we have great power, and use it to react to over the top threats, and beat up crooks' not 'we have great power, and use it to *change the world.*'

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I still want to know how this conservative hero would be different from the ones on now. What would make them conservative?
    My impression is that a conservative audience wouldn't really care about or need the hero to be a spokesperson for their political ideology. Based on the opinions I've seen seen, many conservatives would just rather not deal with societal or overtly political issues. Generally speaking, many seem to either not realize or not care that the standards on which they were raised and which bring them comfort are just as political, but it was the status quo and there were no (or very few, easily marginalized) voices to compete with the worldview that was all from their perspective. When complaints arise of, "don't be political, just tell a good story", what I hear is, "I want stories that are already from my perspective so that I don't have to bother understanding another perspective to enjoy a story not told from my point of view."

    As with all things political, I'm of course speaking in generalities and that's just one opinion...

  11. #86
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    One, half the time they're fighting corrupt government officials, including in America and two, acknowledging government officials aren't all terrible isn't being conservative. In fact, it's quite liberal since liberals believe that the government can be used to help people.
    I think this also illustrates the problem. If there is so much as one element that might remotely be interpreted as liberal in any way by anyone, we are so divided politically as a nation that the whole thing counts as being liberal (or conservative depending on your point of view). Even if a corrupt official is acting independently, poof, it's liberal.
    Power with Girl is better.

  12. #87
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    My understanding is that a lot of so-called conservatives in the United States are actually libertarians. And it seems to me that a lot of super-heroes now play out libertarian fantasies. Maybe that's why Steve Ditko was such a prolific creator of super-heroes. Conservative should actually mean that you support traditional institutions and advocate a prudent approach to change--whereas, many right wing Americans want to dismantle institutions and push radical changes to the existing system, one that rewards individual entrepreneurs (the so-called "job creators").

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I still want to know how this conservative hero would be different from the ones on now. What would make them conservative?
    Their approach to problems, the makeup of their "crew". Slight differences in morality (Willingness to kill/torture/etc)

    Both would stop a mugger from mugging someone on the street, but the cases they elect to take could be significantly different.

    Left Slant: Evil corporation illegally polluting the environment for profit, trying to silence leaker who can expose information.

    Right Slant: Eco-terrorists trying to stop oil pipeline from being built and giving energy to badly needed communities.
    Last edited by titanfan; 02-11-2020 at 09:46 AM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    Already, the police-based Blue Bloods is kind of the show that the OP is hinting at. All it would take is an executive to give it the green light. Make it about an extended family of "duly deputized" crimefighters.

    Within the context of the times, the 1960s Batman show hewed to certain "conservative" tropes. It was very clear from various dialogue that Batman and Robin were not 'vigilantes'. All the mildly admonishing statements from Bruce/Batman to Robin/Dick about various topics.
    I also thought of Blue Bloods when I saw this topic. That is a good example of a show where the heroes are fairly conservative.

  15. #90
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    Their approach to problems, the makeup of their "crew". Slight differences in morality (Willingness to kill/torture/etc)

    Both would stop a mugger from mugging someone on the street, but the cases they elect to take could be significantly different.

    Left Slant: Evil corporation illegally polluting the environment for profit, trying to silence leaker who can expose information.

    Right Slant: Eco-terrorists trying to stop oil pipeline from being built and giving energy to badly needed communities.
    Good examples
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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