Birds Of Prey (2020 Film) — Harley Quinn, BOP, and DCEU Discussion (Spoilers)

[The Cool Thatguy]

This film exists in the first place because Margot Robbie wanted to give some spotlight to lesser known DC characters.

People keep saying that, but Cass is the only one to be lacking multiple outside adaptions, and her character was completely butchered.

I think Robbie just wanted other characters to blame if the movie tanked.

[FutureWonder]

I remember the second trailer of BOP debuting and my faith in the film plummeting even more.
Thinking that maybe trailer # 2 would focus on the Birds was obviously wishful thinking. It was once again the Harley Show.
**Sigh**
And Warner Bros. had/has done a ridiculously bad marketing job.
How can the same studio that gave us spectacularly thrilling marketing campaigns for 1-a film that ended up being so bad (Suicide Squad) and 2- a flim that ended being so good (Wonder Woman) fumble so badly at marketing this movie?
There was barely anything on TV, the two trailers were meh at most and pretty much looked like rejected ideas from the Suicide Squad marketing sessions.
There was never any intent of introducing the other Birds to the general public. It was evident that Warner Bros, thought that "It's Margot Robbie playing Harley Quinn!" was enough of a hook.
Oh well.

So I went to see the film with an open mind (but at the same time skeptical as ****) and...something miraculous happened.
The film actually drew me in from the first frame.

Margot was EXCELLENT. She was not a sexy cardboard cutout like she was in SS; her personality was fleshed out and her deliriously demented psyche explored; not in a profound way, but as much as an escapist blockbuster can.
And then...something even more miraculous happened: the other Birds actually had stuff to do.
The film actually shared the screen substantially with Black Canary, Renee Montoya, Huntress, and Cassandra.
And it was awesome.
Don't get me wrong, the film is still a star vehicle for Margot Robbie...but I was surprised at how well the other ladies stories were explored.
Now, I know that it is sad that anyone would be pleasantly surprised that a film called "Birds of Prey" had the Birds of Prey actually do stuff, but come on...the way Hollywood works, I truly thought this would be 99 % the Harley show and then 1 % spread among the other 4 women.
It is not, and I am SO ****ING GLAD it is not.
And it is a GREAT film.
It is funny, it is fun, it has bone-crunching action ---often literally-- and I would say wholeheartedly that it probably has the most amount of actual action scenes versus total running time of any CBM out there.
And incredibly (despite all those action sequences)... it actually has decent characterization (with not just broad strokes but with many tiny moments that illuminate each of these women's character).

I was ready to hate this film (because I am a huge Birds of Prey-starring-Oracle-Huntress-and-Black Canary fan and because I am NOT the biggest Harley fan in the world)...but I actually was elated at everything that happened onscreen.
I am still processing how the **** I ended up LOVING a movie that I was ready to hate.

Now this brings me to another point: I am baffled by the studio's decision to make this an R.
Cinematic Harley Quinn became a huge hit with teenagers thanks to SS and Robbie (she still is)...
Why limit the film's potential audience with an R?
Harley is Joker-adjacent and Batman-adjacent, and we all know that Joker just grossed a billion dollars with an R rating, and Batman films are always gigantic...but Harley is no Joker or Batman.
Yes, she is popular, but she ain't that popular.
NOTHING in this film needed an R-rating.
Sure, there were some semi-gory scenes and something quite gruesome happens towards the end...

but all of that could have been conveyed without an R.
Robbie has said that since Harley narrates the film (which is from her POV), the manic, psychopathic mindframe of Harley could only be conveyed through an R, and I call that BS.
The stylistic flourishes that director Cathy Yan chose that, in my opinion, perfectly captured what I imagine Harley's mindframe is had ZERO to do with gore or blood or F-bombs.
They were awesome stylistic flourishes in my opinion, but all of them could be made in a PG-13 movie.

I mention all this because the movie is underpeforming overseas and in the US
Yes, I know this film cost 97-ish million "only," which is a pittance by blockbuster superhero movie standards.
Obviously, this doesn't need to gross a billion dollars to be considered a success.
And I know that Shazam is considered an underperformer and is still getting a sequel.

But we all know that Hollywood has double standards for female-centric action films versus male-centric action films.

This NEEDS to be a hit.
I NEED THIS to be a hit because I am IN LOVE with this film and with how these women were portrayed, how they interacted with each other, and how they ended up kicking so much ass when joining forces.

I most certainly want a BOP 2, and the comics have such a wealth of stories they could adapt.
I'd love to see someone like Vixen intoduced in a potential BOP2, and I would love to see the Birds fight Lady Shiva and Cheshire.
And maybe this is the perfect place to introduce Killer Frost.

Oh well, I can dream...

Edit to add:
Please go see this film.
Please.
Help that sequel happen...

[Agent Z]

People keep saying that, but Cass is the only one to be lacking multiple outside adaptions, and her character was completely butchered.

Renee Montoya hasn't appeared in as many adaptations either and her character was pretty much intact.

I think Robbie just wanted other characters to blame if the movie tanked.

Oh come on. This is just too big a leap.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Renee Montoya hasn't appeared in as many adaptations either and her character was pretty much intact.



Oh come on. This is just too big a leap.

Why? It would play to the bias of the suits in WB.

They made Black Canary...black. They made Renee a main character even though she has little association with the team (and none whatsoever if one disregards crowd scenes) and as long as she has a face, is just a supporting character. On top of that, they used Cassandra when literally any other character would do.

So yeah, it seems to be that they deliberately stuffed the cast with PoC, yet barely utilized them. As Harley's the most popular of the cast, who do you think is gonna get the blame first, if it fails?

[Agent Z]

Why? It would play to the bias of the suits in WB.

You have no proof of this.

They made Black Canary...black. They made Renee a main character even though she has little association with the team (and none whatsoever if one disregards crowd scenes) and as long as she has a face, is just a supporting character. On top of that, they used Cassandra when literally any other character would do.

So yeah, it seems to be that they deliberately stuffed the cast with PoC, yet barely utilized them. As Harley's the most popular of the cast, who do you think is gonna get the blame first, if it fails?

The hero with the least development is Huntress who is white. Black Canary has arguably the most interesting in the entire movie and all poc characters have been praised with the only caveat of movie Cass being that she is an interesting and well acted character in her own right even if she is a poor adaptation of an existing character.

The idea that Robbie included these characters for no other reason than the one she gave is provably wrong.

[Ramsay Snow]

The portrayal of the BoP characters and their lack of screen-time didn't bother me. Even if each BoP character was given justice, the movie was poorly written and poorly executed......They tried to emulate Deadpool, but failed miserably.

Aside from Black Mask & Zsasz torturing people in the beginning, nothing in the movie warranted an R-rating (As in none of the content elevated the film), and that rating hurt ticket sales. The reality is, though, it's a dumb movie. From Harley taking out an entire police department (to the point she's able to casually turn her back on a room full of cops and walk away, while, instead of tasing/shooting her with her back turned, they just stand there in wide-eyed horror) to the lame storyline of the entire film.

It was a silly movie which caters to fans of the Kingsman movie franchise, which isn't my cup of tea.....That said, regardless of the factors which likely hurt ticket sales, I'm surprised the movie hasn't done better in the box office. I assumed Harley Quinn has a big enough name to draw in sales, especially since a lot of people raved about her as one of the only bright spots in the Suicide Squad film.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You have no proof of this.



The hero with the least development is Huntress who is white. Black Canary has arguably the most interesting in the entire movie and all poc characters have been praised with the only caveat of movie Cass being that she is an interesting and well acted character in her own right even if she is a poor adaptation of an existing character.

The idea that Robbie included these characters for no other reason than the one she gave is provably wrong.

Provably wrong, how? Because Cass was the only one of the cast suffering from under exposure and damn! did they do her dirty.

[kcekada]

So Black Canary was portrayed by a black actress? I was thinking Hispanic. She was okay, her canary cry was one of the highlights of the film for me.

Margot Robie did a good job playing a character I have never warmed up to. I only went because a female friend of mine was interested in seeing it. It had some interesting moments -- but the action scenes got kinda boring. I don't get where Harley became such an adept acrobat and fighter. I thought Huntress was the standout -- probably because she was closest to her comic book counterpart (excluding Harley -- whom I don't really follow in comics). Black Canary was so so. Renee Montoya was fine -- but I've never been much of a fan of Rose Perez.

I'm glad I saw it at a matinee -- because it wasn't worth paying full price.

The R rating was for the F words -- and they could easily have been replaced with PG language.

[Agent Z]

Provably wrong, how? Because Cass was the only one of the cast suffering from under exposure and damn! did they do her dirty.

Provably wrong because you have nothing to back it up aside from conspiracy theories. Cass's adaptation is a poor one but it does not mean she was chosen so Robbie could have a scapegoat if the movie tanked. Adaptations change things all the time for a variety of reasons.

[batnbreakfast]

The portrayal of the BoP characters and their lack of screen-time didn't bother me. Even if each BoP character was given justice, the movie was poorly written and poorly executed......They tried to emulate Deadpool, but failed miserably.

Aside from Black Mask & Zsasz torturing people in the beginning, nothing in the movie warranted an R-rating (As in none of the content elevated the film), and that rating hurt ticket sales. The reality is, though, it's a dumb movie. From Harley taking out an entire police department (to the point she's able to casually turn her back on a room full of cops and walk away, while, instead of tasing/shooting her with her back turned, they just stand there in wide-eyed horror) to the lame storyline of the entire film.

It was a silly movie which caters to fans of the Kingsman movie franchise, which isn't my cup of tea.....That said, regardless of the factors which likely hurt ticket sales, I'm surprised the movie hasn't done better in the box office. I assumed Harley Quinn has a big enough name to draw in sales, especially since a lot of people raved about her as one of the only bright spots in the Suicide Squad film.

My thoughts go back to this movie all the time. Best 7,00 Euros I spent all week and it made me buy BoP by Gail Simone on Amazon, plus the movie tie-in for Huntress (already own it... Cry for Blood, a classic) and Batman Arkham Black Mask. In a movie like this I don't mind plotholes or twisted adaptations of classic characters. Its entertaining and a better action movie than all of the Fast and the Furious/Transformer crapfests combined.

It is NOT RIPPING OFF Deadpool and really close to the Palmiotti/Connor comics run. You can enjoy this movie despite that and I haven't liked HQ since BTAS ended.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Provably wrong because you have nothing to back it up aside from conspiracy theories. Cass's adaptation is a poor one but it does not mean she was chosen so Robbie could have a scapegoat if the movie tanked. Adaptations change things all the time for a variety of reasons.

I have found it's rather naive to believe everyone who says that they have good motives, from politicians on down.

And you're right, I don't have any direct evidence. But there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence that makes me doubt she was all that serious about giving a fair shake to other characters.

Robbie said she wanted to focus on obscure characters, but only one member of the cast would really qualify.

The two that got the most screen time were Harley (white girl) and Canary (race changed, but not the backstory). Canary's character has not lacked for focus, in multiple mediums. She's been in live action and animated plenty.

In addition, included was Renee Montoya, which frankly is an odd addition when you get down to it, for two reasons. First, Renee too has been in different mediums, though certainly not to the degree of Canary.

Second, unless she's acting as The Question, Renee is basically a supporting character. She brings nothing to a super hero movie, especially not one that avoids most of the special effects and such. She belongs in a series like Gotham, for example. Or a regular action movie, ala Die Hard.

Now, looking at the last member of the team, the only one who's qualify as obscure? She was so butchered that she could have been anyone else and not changed the plot at all. Nixing 'Cassandra Cain' o the scripts and adding 'Harper Row' or Stephanie Brown' probably wouldn't have cost more than 50 bucks, max. Hell, they could have still had the same actress and no one really would have blinked,

But no, Cassandra Cain was the character they chose and thus we were robbed of the dyslexic bad ass with a great motivation, and were given literally 'Smart mouth kid off the street #2937820'.

So yeah, I take Robbie's statements with a grain of salt, given the actions taken.

[Slowpokeking]

Don't forget NO Barbara. I don't see the race change is needed at all as well. If you want a black heroine, why not pick Vixen? It's just bad casting.

WB and Robbie never intended to do BoP well, they just wanted to use them as supporting characters to boost Harley Quinn, you can see from everywhere that Harley Quinn is the main focus.

[Slowpokeking]

*Any* genuine Batgirl, with the Bat iconography, would have been a better core to sell the BoP brand around... because ultimately, if the BoP are supposed to be a heroic group and characters you want to sell to a new audience, then you need to make sure that their launched with a heroic leading lady.

Otherwise, you end up with the situation in the movie - Harley is technically allied to the BoP briefly, but never an actual member, and her story absorbs more of the film than theirs, and they never really get to sell themselves as something strong enough to go forward without her.

You could use Babs, Kate, Cass, or Steph in any number of ways, and better utilized the BoP: Babs as the team leader who’s a peer to them in age, Kate as a more standard “field leader,” Cass as a badass that Canary and Huntress try to connect with outside of the job for her mental health, or Steph as a student of Canary and Huntress with competing viewpoints.

Really, if you wanted Harley to be the main lead, you just aren’t going to get a better fit for her or the other characters than Ivy and Catwoman.

True, Barbara has influence outside the comic fans. Black Canary was also one of the most famous DC heroines. They got such good material but was only using them to fuel Harley Quinn.

[The Cool Thatguy]

True, Barbara has influence outside the comic fans. Black Canary was also one of the most famous DC heroines. They got such good material but was only using them to fuel Harley Quinn.

Yeah, that's my opinion, basically. This was never an ensemble movie, just Harley with a known supporting cast

[Slowpokeking]

Yeah, that's my opinion, basically. This was never an ensemble movie, just Harley with a known supporting cast

And it was doomed to fail from the beginning.