Birds Of Prey (2020 Film) — Harley Quinn, BOP, and DCEU Discussion (Spoilers)

[The Cool Thatguy]

A movie can be an ensemble and still have a clear lead. In this case it's Harley. In the case of, say, GoTG it's Peter Quill.

I'd say it's more like Harley was being used to launch the other characters. She splits off from them at the end. The BOP were being set up as a team separate from her, they could probably have had their own movie spun off from this. It seems pretty clear if you watch the movie that that may have been Robbie's intentions. It sadly might not happen now, but even getting them in something like this without Harley seems like it would have been slim.

If we do get a BOP film sans Harley, Barbara (as either Batgirl or Oracle) can easily be added into the sequel. A BOP film franchise without Barbara is BAD, but this is more like a BOP back door pilot than a full BOP film. Her being absent for just this is hardly the end of the world, and Montoya, Canary and Huntress were done justice as far as their characters are concerned. Give the latter two some more comics accurate costumes (preferably the less male gaze-y ones) and we're good.

Yes, ensemble movies often do have a clear lead, but they spread out the action/development to the entire cast.

There are also ensemble movies that are hijacked by the most popular characters. That was Suicide Squad, for instance.

In BoP, Harley drives, in one fashion or another, 95% of the movie. The cast doesn't even come together until the final act.

[Aahz]

What I still find wired is the costume design, non of costumes looked really like the comics counterpart, and in case of Harley (and Cass) they completely departed from her established colour scheme.

On top of this images of the characters in their costumes were the first promotional material they published. And at least in my case those completely killed the interest in the movie.

[kcekada]

Black Canary and Huntress got costumes for their brief final shot as a team -- I think Montoya was included in that shot as well, but really -- who cares? I don' t see her adding much value to the team. I think the film would have been stronger if Black Canary was already a hero -- and had a costume before the events of this film. Huntress could have been in a better costume as well. Neither character looks that great in the promotional materials.

[kjn]

Yes, ensemble movies often do have a clear lead, but they spread out the action/development to the entire cast.

There are also ensemble movies that are hijacked by the most popular characters. That was Suicide Squad, for instance.

In BoP, Harley drives, in one fashion or another, 95% of the movie. The cast doesn't even come together until the final act.

Rather, Harley narrates 95% of the movie. But everyone of the other characters get to make decisions, and we get to see them.

We have Black Canary making two big decisions: to go rescue Harley when she was in danger of becoming abducted in the alley, and when she decided to help Renee rescue Cass.

We get to see Renee try to connect with Cass, and reaching out to Black Canary for help, and to break investigation protocol in order to save Cass.

Huntress is more nameless avenger, but then we get to see her looking for her new friends and asking what she would do now.

Compared to a movie like the first X-Men movie or GotG, we got to see a lot more of what made the non-lead characters tick.

[Slowpokeking]

Unfortunate, but adaptations change team rosters all the time.



Blake Lively is not a better choice for Black Canary just because she superficially resembles the character. Zoe Kravitz's depiction has also received positive reviews so clearly they made the right choice.





Says you.




And they did.

Yeah, kicking out the team's founder then lower others.

Cast has a big part to do with appearance, especially comic characters. It has been criticized from the beginning.

Yeah, even many posters only has Harley Quinn on it, they even changed the name.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Rather, Harley narrates 95% of the movie. But everyone of the other characters get to make decisions, and we get to see them.

We have Black Canary making two big decisions: to go rescue Harley when she was in danger of becoming abducted in the alley, and when she decided to help Renee rescue Cass.

We get to see Renee try to connect with Cass, and reaching out to Black Canary for help, and to break investigation protocol in order to save Cass.

Huntress is more nameless avenger, but then we get to see her looking for her new friends and asking what she would do now.

Compared to a movie like the first X-Men movie or GotG, we got to see a lot more of what made the non-lead characters tick.

They make minor decisions, but Harley sets the tone (hell, she decides where the 3rd act happens) to the point that she controls where the 3rd act happens.

It's fair to compare this t the first X-Men movie, where Wolverine was pushed to the forefront at the expense of everyone else, but not Guardians, who spent the majority of screen time together and interacting, from the second act on.

[Slowpokeking]

They make minor decisions, but Harley sets the tone (hell, she decides where the 3rd act happens) to the point that she controls where the 3rd act happens.

It's fair to compare this t the first X-Men movie, where Wolverine was pushed to the forefront at the expense of everyone else, but not Guardians, who spent the majority of screen time together and interacting, from the second act on.

Yeah I've mentioned Wolverine and Lawrence's Mystique, comparing them to Harley as well.

[Starrius]

Unfortunate, but adaptations change team rosters all the time.



Blake Lively is not a better choice for Black Canary just because she superficially resembles the character. Zoe Kravitz's depiction has also received positive reviews so clearly they made the right choice.
And they did.

Did you mean Jurnee Smollet-Bell?

[Slowpokeking]

Did you mean Jurnee Smollet-Bell?

I'm not against black actor at all, but there is Vixen(super cool) if they want to use a black heroine.

It's like they've got Storm but turning Emma into black simply for a token black.

[gregpersons]

Having picked a bit more on this movie since I saw it, here are some thoughts on the feminist themes it picks up. Because as I read somewhere, this film is the girl's restroom in a nightclub, and it feels like an apt comparison. It shows a lot of the ways that girls or women both can tear each other down, and how they can build up and protect each other.

The plot opens with Harley reacting to malicious girl gossip, that she will only run back to Joker as soon as he beckons. In another scene, Black Canary chooses to stand back as Black Mask publically humiliates a woman and forces her to strip. We also have the scene where Renee Montoya's ex-girlfriend rats on her, despite wanting to help. We get to see the strategies that women use to adapt to and to survive in the patriarchy: in effect how patriarchy corrupts women as well.

Then we have a key scene where the movie's thesis on Black Mask explicitly becomes text, as Black Canary sings in Roman's nightclub. He is literally lost in the wilderness, lost in the bitterness, lost in the loneliness. But while the original song sings from the perspective of a man to another man, and takes a possessive slant, Jurnee Smollett-Bell's performance of the song changes it to be about men who are unable to see women.

But then the movie sets out to build models for female solidarity. Black Canary might want to keep her head down and most certainly not be a hero, but she's unwilling to let Harley Quinn be abducted, no matter what she thinks of her as a person. She might not be willing to inform on Roman, but she is willing to go against him in order to help Cass. Harley Quinn notices hair issues and lends a hairband. The characters consistently points out how great and awesome the other characters are. Perhaps most importantly, they are shown to trust each other.

Fantastic post. Great reading and A+ analysis.

[Starrius]

I'm not against black actor at all, but there is Vixen(super cool) if they want to use a black heroine.

It's like they've got Storm but turning Emma into black simply for a token black.

Jurnee's father is an Ashkenazi Jew whose family immigrated from Russia and Poland
Her mother is an African American


An African-American from New Orleans, Ms. Smollett met their father, Joel Smollett Sr., a Russian-Polish Jew, in the Bay Area, where they campaigned for civil rights.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/a...-activism.html


Like Jurnee,I am multiracial too

My father was an African American born and raised in New Orleans. He had a maternal 2nd great grandfather that was an Anglo-Cajun.
My maternal grandfather was an American of Cape Verdean, Puerto Rican, Madeiran, and Azorean ancestry.
My maternal grandmother was an American of Ashkenazi Jewish (from Romania and Latvia), English, Scottish,German, Irish, Swiss, Welsh, and Dutch ancestry.

my parents met in San Francisco where I was born

[Slowpokeking]

Jurnee's father is an Ashkenazi Jew whose family immigrated from Russia and Poland
Her mother is an African American

I am multiracial too

Yeah, many ppl are actually multiracial. Obama being the example, his mother is white.

But Black Canary's image isn't like that, she is a typical white blonde. It's not good or bad, it's about the right cast. Just like we won't pick someone who looks quite "white" in ppl's eyes to play Storm or Vixen, even if she has black ancestry. Superhero casting is quite easy, they need to resemble the image as much as possible.

Such as Chloe Bennet is a very beautiful actress with Chinese bloodline, but I don't think she should be picked for Mulan.

[Agent Z]

Cast has a big part to do with appearance, especially comic characters. It has been criticized from the beginning.

Where are the complaints that Barry Allen has never been portrayed by a blonde man in any live action depiction? Most actors who played Jimmy Olsen aren't red heads but only Mechad Brooks got **** for not looking like the character.

Did you mean Jurnee Smollet-Bell?

Right, got their names mixed up. Sorry.

Yeah, many ppl are actually multiracial. Obama being the example, his mother is white.

But Black Canary's image isn't like that, she is a typical white blonde. It's not good or bad, it's about the right cast. Just like we won't pick someone who looks quite "white" in ppl's eyes to play Storm or Vixen, even if she has black ancestry. Superhero casting is quite easy, they need to resemble the image as much as possible.

Except Storm and Vixen's race is actually important to their characters which is not the case for Black Canary.

Such as Chloe Bennet is a very beautiful actress with Chinese bloodline, but I don't think she should be picked for Mulan.

Funny you should mention her because the character she played on Agents of SHIELD was originally white.

Yeah, kicking out the team's founder then lower others.

Two of the original Birds of Prey are present in this movie. The Avengers removed two of the founders and had Hulk who was only on the team for about two issues in the comics. The X-Men franchise leave out two or three of the original five as founders. Most Teen Titans adaptations focus the Wolfman/Perez team.

Yeah, even many posters only has Harley Quinn on it, they even changed the name.

A poster is not the movie.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Funny how this only seems to be an issue when it comes to a black character playing a white character but no one has a problem with the other differences when it comes to white actors. Where are the complaints that Barry Allen has never been portrayed by a blonde man in any live action depiction?

This is a lie and you know it. Very rarely casting of a comic book character isn't met with criticism. People still complain about Ezra nowadays, they complained when Grant was cast, both Pattinson and Affleck announcements about being Batman were criticized, Heath Ledger was controversial when he was cast as Joker, then Leto was criticized by not being Ledger. Even people tried to get Keaton removed back in the 80s.

[Agent Z]

This is a lie and you know it. Very rarely casting of a comic book character isn't met with criticism. People still complain about Ezra nowadays, they complained when Grant was cast, both Pattinson and Affleck announcements about being Batman were criticized, Heath Ledger was controversial when he was cast as Joker, then Leto was criticized by not being Ledger. Even people tried to get Keaton removed back in the 80s.

The complaints about Miller, Gustin, Pattison and Affleck had nothing to do with their looks. I wasn't saying people don't complain about casting, I was saying the complaints aren't always the same.