Legion of Super-Heroes (LoSH) Appreciation 2020

[Jon-El]

Always my favorite Legion

Love how Giffen worked both Batman & Spider- man into this piece!!

[caj]

Love how Giffen worked both Batman & Spider- man into this piece!!

Yeah, and I love this drawing but I wish he could've drawn Tyroc somewhere in it. And I wish that Wildfire would've went back into his containment suit as well.

[Thor-Ul]

Love how Giffen worked both Batman & Spider- man into this piece!!

Yes, it always ewas fun to look in the Legion background all those little easter eggs.

Wasn't a big fan of the Legion pre-mid 80's. So maybe someone can tell me how they justified Super-boy, Super-girl, Mon-el and Ultra Boy being on the team at the same time when they had a rule of no duplicate powers? Even with Ultra boy only being able to use one power at a time it's still the same powers as a SB and Mon. I mean, that's the reason Alya got that stupid gravity powers instead of her lightning.

He was Superboy! Everyone looks the other way when is about famous people.
Ultraboy on the other hand, he had penetravision, he was capable to see through lead, even.

[Sutekh]

Wasn't a big fan of the Legion pre-mid 80's. So maybe someone can tell me how they justified Super-boy, Super-girl, Mon-el and Ultra Boy being on the team at the same time when they had a rule of no duplicate powers? Even with Ultra boy only being able to use one power at a time it's still the same powers as a SB and Mon. I mean, that's the reason Alya got that stupid gravity powers instead of her lightning.

They break their own rules from time to time.

Karate Kid snuck in despite not even having a super-power at all, and they could rationalize that Ultra Boy has a power that Superboy doesn't (can see through lead), or that Mon-El has a power that Superboy doesn't (immune to Kryptonite, which is, coincidentally, a super-power even *I* have!), etc. (That said, I'm not a fan of too many of the same powerset. Variety is fun, and I don't particularly want to read the Legion of Superboys.)

Much later, Chameleon Girl joined as well, despite being Chameleon Boy 2.0, and Lightning Lass reverted to her electrical powers, and remained an active Legionnaire alongside her brother.

Amusingly, her 'stupid gravity powers' were way more useful than chucking zaps at people, which any doof with a blaster can do in the 31st century. But the lightning is way more dramatic, cool-looking and easier on the artist, since they don't have to draw people flailing around as she levitates them into the ceiling over and over.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

They break their own rules from time to time.

Karate Kid snuck in despite not even having a super-power at all, and they could rationalize that Ultra Boy has a power that Superboy doesn't (can see through lead), or that Mon-El has a power that Superboy doesn't (immune to Kryptonite, which is, coincidentally, a super-power even *I* have!), etc. (That said, I'm not a fan of too many of the same powerset. Variety is fun, and I don't particularly want to read the Legion of Superboys.)

Much later, Chameleon Girl joined as well, despite being Chameleon Boy 2.0, and Lightning Lass reverted to her electrical powers, and remained an active Legionnaire alongside her brother.

Amusingly, her 'stupid gravity powers' were way more useful than chucking zaps at people, which any doof with a blaster can do in the 31st century. But the lightning is way more dramatic, cool-looking and easier on the artist, since they don't have to draw people flailing around as she levitates them into the ceiling over and over.

Actually, Lightning Lass didn't serve alongside her brother when she rejoined. Lightning Lad was busy going on inactive status alongside his wife Saturn Girl after the birth of their son Graym about three months earlier our time (and Graym's twin whom Darkseid kidnapped and transformed into Validus, but that's another story). Ayla rejoined in LSH (Baxter edition) #7, and five issues later, the Legion's three founding members (Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, and Lightning Lad) announced their resignations from active duty. This didn't stop them from making appearances in later stories, and Saturn Girl actually went back on active duty a few years later (again, our time), but throughout the rest of the Baxter LSH series (and even the Five Years Later era), Lightning Lad never formally rejoined the Legion.

And her "stupid gravity powers" actually were stupid, but they weren't "gravity powers." They were described and depicted as "the power to make objects or people super-lightweight," and that's all that was ever done with them. At least during Levitz's 1980s run on the Legion, he was steadfast in his resistance to any and all reader suggestions and ideas to "extrapolate on" any Legionnaire's stated powers in order to make those powers greater or more "useful." The idea that her powers as Light Lass had any possible greater application over gravity itself didn't manifest until Mark Waid launched the Threeboot, and even then I only remember being used in one story.

So, yeah, Ayla Ranzz's lightning powers were considered a thousand times more powerful and useful than making things "super-lightweight." This was the era when the Legion's writers couldn't figure out how to use Chemical King's powers useful on a consistent basis, and Invisible Kid/Lyle Norg was killed off because the editor thought his powers were weak, or so I've been told.

[CaptCleghorn]

They break their own rules from time to time.

Karate Kid snuck in despite not even having a super-power at all, and they could rationalize that Ultra Boy has a power that Superboy doesn't (can see through lead), or that Mon-El has a power that Superboy doesn't (immune to Kryptonite, which is, coincidentally, a super-power even *I* have!), etc. (That said, I'm not a fan of too many of the same powerset. Variety is fun, and I don't particularly want to read the Legion of Superboys.)

Much later, Chameleon Girl joined as well, despite being Chameleon Boy 2.0, and Lightning Lass reverted to her electrical powers, and remained an active Legionnaire alongside her brother.

Amusingly, her 'stupid gravity powers' were way more useful than chucking zaps at people, which any doof with a blaster can do in the 31st century. But the lightning is way more dramatic, cool-looking and easier on the artist, since they don't have to draw people flailing around as she levitates them into the ceiling over and over.

I always assumed that the grouping of Kryptonians and Daxamites with the same powers still qualified as they all had a plethora of powers and for each, one of their powers would be counted. Superboy might get super-hearing, Ultra Boy penetrra-vision, Supergirl flight, and Mon-El super breath. In a case where a group wants something, it's going to find a way around its set of rules.

[Sutekh]

Actually, Lightning Lass didn't serve alongside her brother when she rejoined.

True. They see-sawed back and forth quite a bit, but by the time Levitz relaunched the team a few years back (and started introducing new folks like Harmonia Li and Dragonwing), both were members at the same time, and had little letters on the board at the same time.

And her "stupid gravity powers" actually were stupid, but they weren't "gravity powers." They were described and depicted as "the power to make objects or people super-lightweight," and that's all that was ever done with them.

Oh, I know. I was quoting someone else, who called them 'stupid gravity powers.' Just like Star Boy, they started as the power to affect the weight of a target (making it 'super-lightweight') and gravity wasn't even a thing.

I do like that she was regularly shown making people fly upwards, which 'super-lightweight' shouldn't have been able to do, since it would, at most, make someone weightless and prone to floating away, not weigh negative amounts and 'fall up.' She even 'dribbled' someone like a basketball on some ladies night out issue, making him fly into the ceiling, then fall to the ground, then fly to the ceiling, then fall to the ground, over and over, which seemed like a very cool use of her power (although, as I said in my earlier post, much harder to draw than just a lightning zap!).

Similarly, Star Boy's 'ability to draw mass from the stars to make stuff super-heavy' sounds actually kind of intriguing, compared to gravity control, and could, for instance, make a sort of defensive 'buff' by adding a ton of mass to someone just as they are coming under fire, or the split-second before an explosion hits them. Bang! I made you 100x heavier for a split second. You barely felt it, but 99% of that explosion was absorbed by all that extra mass! (Nobody but Ultra Boy, with his selective ultra-strength, would hugely benefit from it, since anyone else able to move under all that weight already has invulnerability along with super-strength.)

At least during Levitz's 1980s run on the Legion, he was steadfast in his resistance to any and all reader suggestions and ideas to "extrapolate on" any Legionnaire's stated powers in order to make those powers greater or more "useful."

I agree that it's not great when characters powers keep being added to, as if 'more power' somehow means 'better character' (if that was the case, Martian Manhunter would sell like hotcakes, and nobody would remember that Batman loser!). But I do also like it when a characters pre-existing power is used creatively, or as part of a team synergy.

This was the era when the Legion's writers couldn't figure out how to use Chemical King's powers useful on a consistent basis, and Invisible Kid/Lyle Norg was killed off because the editor thought his powers were weak, or so I've been told.

A pity about Chemical King. Even if he sticks to relatively easy chemical reactions like setting stuff on fire, and saves the complicated stuff for writers with half a brain, he's got a neat power.

And Lyle. Yikes. Kind of a dangerous power to have on a team of flying super-fast invulnerable people, and ranged blasters like Lightning Lad and Sun Boy... "Where's Lyle?" "Well, I was blasting the Emerald Empress, and I heard this scream and smelled roast pork, so he *might* be around here somewhere... I guess he was sneaking up on her? How was I to know! Help me find the body..."

Legion Flight Rings need to come with Friend-or-Foe software that 'pings' when you are about to blast an invisible ally. (Or Cham in disguise as a villain, or the precise area of that massive darkness field in which Shady happens to be standing...)

[Adekis]

I don't particularly want to read the Legion of Superboys.

I actually have been saying for a few years now that I'd like to read a Superboys book about Jon, Kon, and Mon.



Lar is actually one of my favorites, I love him. I wish DC did more with him, especially with the "wanderer" aspect of his character that's been so big since the late '70s or early '80s.



I do want to say, I wish he got more page time with Kal. Their brotherly relationship is one of my favorite things about them. It's a really valuable friendship that I would just like to see more attention. Even back in the old days, they rarely spent much quality time together or went on missions together - probably because practically their powers were identical, and Mon was often out in space. But I love seeing them together. Maybe one day, DC will bring the faux bros back.

[j9ac9k]

I actually have been saying for a few years now that I'd like to read a Superboys book about Jon, Kon, and Mon.

Maybe they can team with Dick, Jason and Tim - then you'd have six guys who all look alike!

[Lee Stone]

I'm pretty sure that this was the first Legion book that I ever bought!

My first Legion comic was Tales of the Legion #316 in 1984.



With a cover by Terry Shoemaker and Larry Mahlstedt.

Featured characters in the issue were:

Cosmic Boy
Dawnstar
Lightning Lad
Mon-El
Saturn Girl
Wildfire
Laurel Kent
Magnetic Kid
Polar Boy
Night Girl
Stone Boy
Bouncing Boy
Blok
White Witch

Shoemaker was the interior artist. So my first impression wasn't by Giffen, Jurgens or Lightle.

The Great Darkness Saga ended two years before I started reading Legion. I wouldn't get to read the Great Darkness Saga for another five years (around 1989).

There was a second title launched in 1984 that was only available at comic shops, so I could only read half the stories. At least until the reprints began.

There were at least two dozen members in the Legion, and only about 8 or 9 of them actually appeared in the first comic I read.

Only a few of the characters in this book would become favorites: Dawnstar, Mon-El, Wildfire, Night Girl and White Witch. I still had yet to see Shadow Lass, Timber Wolf and Star Boy.

Most everything I learned about the Legion and its members would come from the Who's Who series that came out a year later, as well as Jeff Rovin's excellent Encyclopedia of Super-Heroes.

[caj]

My first Legion comic was Tales of the Legion #316 in 1984.



With a cover by Terry Shoemaker and Larry Mahlstedt.

Those were great issues for sure. But I wish Levitz had done what Marv Wolfman did over in New Teen Titans, which was write new, self-contained stories for both issues with the Baxter issues coming after the newsstand issues. Levitz had plenty of characters and a ton of unfinished plots he could've completed during the first year and thereby allowing the Baxter stories for 1-12 to come afterwards. It's hard to read the Legion of Super Villains storyline with Karate Kid's death because the issues keep referencing things that are happening over in the newsstand issues that are going on at the same time. Just my 2 cents.

[Sutekh]

I actually have been saying for a few years now that I'd like to read a Superboys book about Jon, Kon, and Mon.

Well, now that you mention it, that could be a neat thing to see, how very different in personality the three of them are, despite their similar powersets and team roles. It's a fun writing challenge to write different *people* who all 'in the same niche,' so to speak, and make them all seem like individuals, as is done with various ninja turtles or power rangers, who don't have unique powers to help them stand out. Maybe even sharpen the contrast with some other similar characters, like Dev-Em or Ol-Vir. But that's not what I want to see in a Legion book. (At least not long-term, although it could be a fun standalone story or six-issue story arc.)

[0nt1r]

Agreed. Losing Superboy blew a huge hole in the book, which always functioned best when connected, even tangentially, to Superman.
I’ve wondered, however, what might’ve happened, post-Crisis, if Levitz had substituted Superboy and Supergirl with Cap, Jr. & Mary Marvel? That might’ve given him a better fix, which would’ve helped cement the Shazam Family better into the larger DCU.

[Sutekh]

I’ve wondered, however, what might’ve happened, post-Crisis, if Levitz had substituted Superboy and Supergirl with Cap, Jr. & Mary Marvel? That might’ve given him a better fix, which would’ve helped cement the Shazam Family better into the larger DCU.

Interesting! I don't love the idea, but I love what we did get even less, so maybe it could have worked better than the, IMO, kludge-y attempt to shoehorn Captain Marvel onto the JLI alongside various Earth 1 Leaguers, Dr. Fate from Earth 2, Blue Beetle from Charlton, etc. in what kind of felt like the Justice League of Post-Crisis Canon Refugees...

The younger Marvels slotted in as the Superboy/Supergirl stand-ins of the Legion might have fit in better than 'Pocket Universe Superboy' business.

[sifighter]

Thunder was a future member of the Marvel Family who joined the Legion of Superheroes for a period of time post-zero hour

296762-138601-thunder.jpg