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  1. #91
    Fantastic Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    It was already forgotten? Where is your evidence for this? And Scorsese has clarified on mutiple occasions he wasnt talking about the MCU. He was talking about Huge franchises and Superhero movies in general. Funny to hear you call other people delusional after making comments like that. If 90% of the people who saw Endgame got amnesia, it would still have more people remember it then Ford V Ferrari. More people saw it then most those movies you listed combined
    Endgame was no longer in any film conversation by the Autumn of 2019. Ford v Ferrari is a different beast for a different market. The same goes for the other 8 Oscar best picture nominees.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Apples and oranges, IMHO; the MCU has already made a massive footprint. Fair enough, as you did later explain, that we don't know yet what kind of legacy the MCU will leave once it finishes, but I think it's safe to say that it has good chances of lasting a la Star Wars.
    I don't hear any cinema expert talking about how MCU has left a massive footprint. Half of the best picture nominees already have resentment for Endgame. Little want to bring up MCU anymore in any conversation about cinema. Endgame's loss was the Oscars sending a message that they agree to that. Something that has destroyed the reputation and perception of comic movies should not be seen as a successor to Star Wars. Star Wars did not damage its own genre, MCU did.

    The legacy we have is to make less Endgame movies and more Jokers to win Oscars. This is not a massive footprint, Its a small footnote, and I am not a massive Joker fan.

  2. #92
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Endgame was no longer in any film conversation by the Autumn of 2019. Ford v Ferrari is a different beast for a different market. The same goes for the other 8 Oscar best picture nominees.



    I don't hear any cinema expert talking about how MCU has left a massive footprint. Half of the best picture nominees already have resentment for Endgame. Little want to bring up MCU anymore in any conversation about cinema. Endgame's loss was the Oscars sending a message that they agree to that. Something that has destroyed the reputation and perception of comic movies should not be seen as a successor to Star Wars. Star Wars did not damage its own genre, MCU did.

    The legacy we have is to make less Endgame movies and more Jokers to win Oscars. This is not a massive footprint, Its a small footnote, and I am not a massive Joker fan.
    Who's conversations? You make this claims but other then your personal opinion what's the evidence of that? All your doing is speaking for other people. You speak for the Oscars now apparently. You can have whatever extreme opinion you want but dont try to pawn it off as being shared by Oscar voters or anyone else who hasnt stated that. Black panther won 3 Oscars and was nominated for a few more. The Oscar's dont have any issues with The MCU.

  3. #93
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    All this talk about forgetting movies, you'd think that movie going audiences are suffering from amnesia or something.

    How can one forget a movie he/she watched just a few months ago?
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  4. #94
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    All this talk about forgetting movies, you'd think that movie going audiences are suffering from amnesia or something.

    How can one forget a movie he/she watched just a few months ago?
    It's a talking point for MCU haters. They cant say no one watches the movies becuae how successful they are. So they narrative then become they're forgetable and audiences forget about them as soon as they leave the theater. Atleast they moved in from the Disney lying about ticket sales and buying out empty theaters crap.

  5. #95
    Fantastic Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    All this talk about forgetting movies, you'd think that movie going audiences are suffering from amnesia or something.

    How can one forget a movie he/she watched just a few months ago?
    When you remember drinking a diet soda you bought for 35 cents to quench your taste but don't remember it been as tasty as that fine wine that cost you 50 dollars? Endgame is the 35 cents soda, Parasite is the 40 dollar wine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Who's conversations? You make this claims but other then your personal opinion what's the evidence of that? All your doing is speaking for other people. You speak for the Oscars now apparently. You can have whatever extreme opinion you want but dont try to pawn it off as being shared by Oscar voters or anyone else who hasnt stated that. Black panther won 3 Oscars and was nominated for a few more. The Oscar's dont have any issues with The MCU.
    Black Panther's 3 wins is now the bat symbol for political correctness. If the Oscars are a sham, there is no bigger evidence than this.

    Endgame did something very wrong for it to be the highest grossing film not to win a single Oscar or score more nominations. The Oscars did not want to nominate a bad comic movie. They felt more comfortable with a average comic movie in Joker to a bad one.
    Last edited by Marvelgirl; 02-15-2020 at 03:21 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    It was already forgotten? Where is your evidence for this? And Scorsese has clarified on mutiple occasions he wasnt talking about the MCU. He was talking about Huge franchises and Superhero movies in general. Funny to hear you call other people delusional after making comments like that. If 90% of the people who saw Endgame got amnesia, it would still have more people remember it then Ford V Ferrari. More people saw it then most those movies you listed combined
    Scorsese's response was a question about Marvel movies, he insulted them by classifying them as not "real" cinema.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/11/8/209504...s-cinema-feige

    “I don’t think they’re cinema,” the director wrote in an op-ed for the New York Times on November 4, voicing his disdain for Disney’s superhero blockbusters. “I was asked a question about Marvel movies. I answered it. I said that I’ve tried to watch a few of them and that they’re not for me, that they seem to me to be closer to theme parks than they are to movies as I’ve known and loved them throughout my life.”

  7. #97
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    The Oscars snubbed Saving Private Ryan for Best Picture. A movie dearly considered the best war movie.
    All Quiet on the Western Front (1930) is rightly considered the best war movie; and unlike Saving Private Ryan (1999) it actually won Best Picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    And Private Ryan lost to Shakespeare in Love. Easy to say which picture is better remembered and still has a foothold with the public.
    Shakespeare in Love (1999) is a masterpiece, but it's one that specifically appeals most to people in the entertainment industry. There are just so many brilliant "in jokes" and comments that mayyyyyybe you have to be in the industry to truly love. That... and it was incredibly original, beautifully visually and brilliantly acted (killer soundtrack too). But I totally get why people don't love it, but I also get why those in the industry bloody adore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    1917 is a decent war movie but not a great one. It didn't introduce new standards for realism the way Saving Private Ryan did with its great violence in the opening sequence.
    I would heavily disagree. One of the things I loved about 1917 (2019) was (for me) how it conveyed the brutality of war better than any film I'd seen. Because of the 'one take' you just never got a release, you couldn't stop and it just kept coming and coming. It wasn't the mass slaughter of Saving Private Ryan, but I don't think that alone conveys the true brutality. For me it's falling on a dead body, and having your hand go through because it's rotten, to throw yourself away only to land on another dead body in the mud, to roll away onto yet another dead body as a rat crawls out it's wound. YUK YUK YUK! Oh, it was horrific (but sooooo good).

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Apples and oranges, IMHO; the MCU has already made a massive footprint. Fair enough, as you did later explain, that we don't know yet what kind of legacy the MCU will leave once it finishes, but I think it's safe to say that it has good chances of lasting a la Star Wars.
    THE MCU has, yes... but not necessarily an individual movie. Compare it to James Bond. James Bond is a franchise, true. But so many films stand out as unique films, as iconic pieces of cinema BEYOND a franchise. The MCU will be remembered for a long, long time (forever? We don't know... lot of 'beloved' franchises have disappeared when 40 years have passed). Where as Endgame? Maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Who's conversations? You make this claims but other then your personal opinion what's the evidence of that? All your doing is speaking for other people. You speak for the Oscars now apparently. You can have whatever extreme opinion you want but dont try to pawn it off as being shared by Oscar voters or anyone else who hasnt stated that. Black panther won 3 Oscars and was nominated for a few more. The Oscar's dont have any issues with The MCU.
    The Oscars have consistently shown a (somewhat noticeable) bias against horror, sci-fi, fantasy and superheroes. That's not Marvel Girl talking for the Oscars, that's industry professionals saying it again and again. The only reason the Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King (2003) broke the mold was because it was too good to ignore. Too revolutionary, too well made, too artistic (AND TOO POPULAR) to ignore. A lot of the voters are older, and they look down on superheroes. That's... just common knowledge.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  8. #98
    Fantastic Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    All Quiet on the Western Front (1930) is rightly considered the best war movie; and unlike Saving Private Ryan (1999) it actually won Best Picture.


    Shakespeare in Love (1999) is a masterpiece, but it's one that specifically appeals most to people in the entertainment industry. There are just so many brilliant "in jokes" and comments that mayyyyyybe you have to be in the industry to truly love. That... and it was incredibly original, beautifully visually and brilliantly acted (killer soundtrack too). But I totally get why people don't love it, but I also get why those in the industry bloody adore it.


    I would heavily disagree. One of the things I loved about 1917 (2019) was (for me) how it conveyed the brutality of war better than any film I'd seen. Because of the 'one take' you just never got a release, you couldn't stop and it just kept coming and coming. It wasn't the mass slaughter of Saving Private Ryan, but I don't think that alone conveys the true brutality. For me it's falling on a dead body, and having your hand go through because it's rotten, to throw yourself away only to land on another dead body in the mud, to roll away onto yet another dead body as a rat crawls out it's wound. YUK YUK YUK! Oh, it was horrific (but sooooo good).


    THE MCU has, yes... but not necessarily an individual movie. Compare it to James Bond. James Bond is a franchise, true. But so many films stand out as unique films, as iconic pieces of cinema BEYOND a franchise. The MCU will be remembered for a long, long time (forever? We don't know... lot of 'beloved' franchises have disappeared when 40 years have passed). Where as Endgame? Maybe not.


    The Oscars have consistently shown a (somewhat noticeable) bias against horror, sci-fi, fantasy and superheroes. That's not Marvel Girl talking for the Oscars, that's industry professionals saying it again and again. The only reason the Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King (2003) broke the mold was because it was too good to ignore. Too revolutionary, too well made, too artistic (AND TOO POPULAR) to ignore. A lot of the voters are older, and they look down on superheroes. That's... just common knowledge.
    Its not that Lord of the Rings was too good to ignore. There are many science fiction movies too good to ignore but ignored. Lord of the Rings once removed of the fantasy is another Ben-Hur, Gladiator, Braveheart, Shakespeare in Love , Chariots of Fire and A Midsummer Night's Dream.

  9. #99
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Shakespeare in Love (1999) is a masterpiece, but it's one that specifically appeals most to people in the entertainment industry. There are just so many brilliant "in jokes" and comments that mayyyyyybe you have to be in the industry to truly love. That... and it was incredibly original, beautifully visually and brilliantly acted (killer soundtrack too). But I totally get why people don't love it, but I also get why those in the industry bloody adore it.
    I liked Shakespeare in Love, and yes I got all the Hollywood, Shakespeare and Elizibethan in jokes. I thought Private Ryan was more deserving. But my main point is that SPR has had a longer lasting impact. The Oscar does not mean one movie is remembered more than another from that year.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #100
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Scorsese's response was a question about Marvel movies, he insulted them by classifying them as not "real" cinema.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/11/8/209504...s-cinema-feige
    In the director's round table he directly says he wasnt talking about The MCU specifically. He was talking about Mega franchises and superheroes in General. After another director says she likes the movies.

  11. #101
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    When you remember drinking a diet soda you bought for 35 cents to quench your taste but don't remember it been as tasty as that fine wine that cost you 50 dollars? Endgame is the 35 cents soda, Parasite is the 40 dollar wine.



    Black Panther's 3 wins is now the bat symbol for political correctness. If the Oscars are a sham, there is no bigger evidence than this.

    Endgame did something very wrong for it to be the highest grossing film not to win a single Oscar or score more nominations. The Oscars did not want to nominate a bad comic movie. They felt more comfortable with a average comic movie in Joker to a bad one.
    Wow so a Black Movie wins and gets nominated for a bunch of awards. All of which I can make arguments for why they deserved, but you dismiss the movie as only being the beneficiary of Poltical correctness. But when asked what was undeserving about the movie all anyone seems to be able to say is bad CGI in a couple scenes. The Irishman had Robert Dinero looking silly for chunks of the movie. Which is even funnier becuace the deaging looked great on Pesci and Pacino IMO. I dont think bad CGI on Deniros face for parts of the movie takes away from value of the story in an meaningful way.

    As for Endgame, the field was strong this year. I dont even think Endgame shoulda won the VFX award. Lion king should have. But 1917 is an Oscar type film, so the fact it also had good CGI was gonna give it the advantage.

    As far as not remembering these movies after you saw them. MCU works like a TV show basicaly, if people dont remember the last movie then the next movie isnt gonna work for them. But the MCU kept getting bigger and bigger. A 30cent soda might quench your thirst but it ain't Coke. It's just scraping by making whatever money Coke leaves on the table. The MCU is Coke, not the 30cent soda. With star wars tittering, the MCU is probaly the most bankable brand there is in film.

  12. #102
    Amazing Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Endgame was no longer in any film conversation by the Autumn of 2019. Ford v Ferrari is a different beast for a different market. The same goes for the other 8 Oscar best picture nominees.



    I don't hear any cinema expert talking about how MCU has left a massive footprint. Half of the best picture nominees already have resentment for Endgame. Little want to bring up MCU anymore in any conversation about cinema. Endgame's loss was the Oscars sending a message that they agree to that. Something that has destroyed the reputation and perception of comic movies should not be seen as a successor to Star Wars. Star Wars did not damage its own genre, MCU did.

    The legacy we have is to make less Endgame movies and more Jokers to win Oscars. This is not a massive footprint, Its a small footnote, and I am not a massive Joker fan.
    A movie having the mantle of highest grossing film does not mean we should congratulate it with Oscars.

  13. #103
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I liked Shakespeare in Love, and yes I got all the Hollywood, Shakespeare and Elizibethan in jokes. I thought Private Ryan was more deserving.
    How come?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    But my main point is that SPR has had a longer lasting impact. The Oscar does not mean one movie is remembered more than another from that year.
    Did it? The only time I hear it referenced is when people say "it should have won the Oscar." It may have spourned more war movies than previously (not that it was a dead genre, but it revitalised it, much like Gladiator (2000) did for the 'sword n' sandals' genre. But I see no evidence to say Saving Private Ryan (1998) is any more remembered than Shakespeare in Love (1998). I don't, for example, see any influence of Saving Private Ryan in 1917 (2019).

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Its not that Lord of the Rings was too good to ignore. There are many science fiction movies too good to ignore but ignored. Lord of the Rings once removed of the fantasy is another Ben-Hur, Gladiator, Braveheart, Shakespeare in Love , Chariots of Fire and A Midsummer Night's Dream.
    Very confused about A Midsummer Night's Dream being added into that, was that either an epic or a serious contender for Best Picture? And the other films listed are still brilliantly made. For every Ben-Hur (1959) there is a Kingdom of Heaven (2006).

    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Wow so a Black Movie wins and gets nominated for a bunch of awards. All of which I can make arguments for why they deserved, but you dismiss the movie as only being the beneficiary of Poltical correctness. But when asked what was undeserving about the movie all anyone seems to be able to say is bad CGI in a couple scenes. The Irishman had Robert Dinero looking silly for chunks of the movie. Which is even funnier becuace the deaging looked great on Pesci and Pacino IMO. I dont think bad CGI on Deniros face for parts of the movie takes away from value of the story in an meaningful way.
    Am I the only one who really didn't like the Irishman (2019)? It was soooooooo long and added nothing to the genre that Scorcese didn't say in Goodfellas (1990). It was literally 'Goodfellas Part II: This Time We Have Pacino'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    A movie having the mantle of highest grossing film does not mean we should congratulate it with Oscars.
    THIS!!!!
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  14. #104
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    How come?


    Did it? The only time I hear it referenced is when people say "it should have won the Oscar." It may have spourned more war movies than previously (not that it was a dead genre, but it revitalised it, much like Gladiator (2000) did for the 'sword n' sandals' genre. But I see no evidence to say Saving Private Ryan (1998) is any more remembered than Shakespeare in Love (1998). I don't, for example, see any influence of Saving Private Ryan in 1917 (2019).
    Because I thought it the better movie, more cinematic, as Scorsese would say.

    I hear a lot more people talking about SPR than SIL. Your mileage may vary. I think SIL was helped by the Weinstein PR machine at the time. This is in no way a slight againt the movie, which was very good (I would not call it a masterpiece) but again, it is about the discussion of movies that resonate more.

    Another example would be the 1969 Awards. "2001" was not even nominated for best picture. "Oliver!" won. It's not even close which movie has a larger footprint today.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    The question of what movie has the "most footprint" or if a moving having a "footprint" is a criteria for excellence is pretty hard and close to inconclusive. And that's more or less why all awards (be it Nobel Prize for Literature, Oscars, Palme d'Or) and so on are a mug's game. An award judges stuff in a single year but it's next to impossible to predict whether a movie released in the final months of a year will somehow have the most footprint or lasting importance in the decades to come.

    The Oscars have always favored safe, and conventional movies over bold ones but even if it weren't, predicting the footprint would have been a difficult task.

    That Parasite won is pretty shocking and exceptional because this was a bold and unconventional movie, and was foreign as they come.

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