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  1. #136
    Fantastic Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Some people are blind to what's before them. That happens with anything. Like Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy is politically quite...well centrist neoliberalism is my polite word for it...not too right wing that it's faschy but quite anti-leftist. And yet Rush Limbaugh thought that Bane was a reference to Bain Capital, i.e. a company that Romney worked for. A political controversy can erupt over random things even stuff that's actually on the same side of that critic. And sometimes people miss more subtle stuff.



    Right. And you also had that Abbot and Costello and those horror movies which crossed over back in the day.



    LOGAN is certainly more political than the Mark Millar comic it drew ideas from. Millar's comic is just a gore-fest about old dudes killing people in their final days and feeling guilty about stuff...whereas LOGAN is saying stuff.

    Some of it is accidental. The movie was written, entered production, and was edited before Trump got elected and got released in March 2017, just months after his inauguration. Had Hillary won (and it was fairly close had she gotten the Rust Belt in line and gotten one of the swing states), I think the movie might have played differently. But the sense of righteous anger and disgust at the start...the fact that the superheroes didn't just lose but lost badly, and they lost anti-climactically to unworthy opponents really spoke to the sense of anger and bitterness people had about the 2016 election and just 2016 in general. I mean remember how many people joked about 2016 feeling like "the worst possible timeline" or out of something dystopian...well LOGAN really tapped into the zeitgeist.

    It's quite a good thing that the first superhero movie in the Trump Presidency, which is what LOGAN is, is a story of a superhero failing and dying at the end. LOGAN is basically a movie for "The Resistance" you know the bad guys have won and are in power and the boomers and Gen-X'rs failed, and all those few old dudes who are still around and sad and hopeless can do is lay down their lives for the kids and the future.

    Whereas Joker 2019 really feels astroturfed. It's a movie set in the '80s but is plainly about stuff that are hot topics of the last decade. It alludes to Bernie Goetz but doesn't deal with the baggage of that allusion. So it's got nothing specifically political to say
    .
    This is true about the Joker. Wonder Woman captured the 1910s era of World War 1. Joker didn't do as good of a job to capture the 80s settings or the themes that defined the 80s. It is still a movie worthy of rewatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    How have the MCU done more harm to the genre?
    Had Endgame had any true cinematic meaning. It should have won 3-5 Oscars. Avatar was about blue people, I believe to be spoofy alternative universe native Americans. Its a better political movie to Endgame that has nothing to say about life.
    Last edited by Marvelgirl; 02-18-2020 at 12:00 PM.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Ledger's portrayal was elevated because of the death of the actor. Phoenix's portrayal is decided on stable terms. Phoenix took us on a journey of the character. Ledger's performance is one note to make Batman miserable. Ledger's portrayal is a great evil caricature villain, who is evil for the sake of it. Phoenix's portrayal is a more evolved Joker story-wise than a caricature.
    Ledger's Joker was pathetically desperate to prove that *anyone* would make the same decisions that he made, that he wasn't a monster. He kept setting up challenges to 'prove' it, like the two ferries, so that the ferry-goers would validate his own bad choices by making similar bad choices (to save themselves at the cost of killing a bunch of other people).

    Every time someone proved him wrong, he just double down, and tried to create more impossible choices to prove that it wasn't just him, that *anyone* would make these same selfish choices, even Batman.

    Elevated because of the death of the actor? Possibly. I don't have an alternate-universe-hopping machine to take me to a world where he lived to see how things went there, but I'll take your opinion for what it is.

    But, 'caricature villain' or 'performance is one note to make Batman miserable?' Far from it.

  3. #138
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Ledger's Joker was just fantastic, from a purely acting point of view Ledger slayyyyyyed that role (and I 100% think he would have won the Oscar regardless, he was brilliant). Also bare in mind who he was up against that year, I think he'd have still beaten them. All good performances, but none of them were "winners", mayyyyybe Shannon (Josh Brolin for Milk, Robert Downey Jr. for Tropic Thunder, Philip Seymour Hoffman for Doubt and Michael Shannon for Revolutionary Road).

    I think Phoenix had more character work to play with, but that's down to the script, not the actor's work. I enjoyed Ledger more, because he felt more like a Batman villain, and all his little touches were so beautiful. I think Phoenix was the closest to the Joker I grew up with (voiced by Mark Hamill) BUT he lacked the brains. I believed this person can cause the chaos of the riots, I don't believe he had the skill to control it, or harness it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Some people are blind to what's before them. That happens with anything. Like Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy is politically quite...well centrist neoliberalism is my polite word for it...not too right wing that it's faschy but quite anti-leftist. And yet Rush Limbaugh thought that Bane was a reference to Bain Capital, i.e. a company that Romney worked for. A political controversy can erupt over random things even stuff that's actually on the same side of that critic. And sometimes people miss more subtle stuff.
    When LOTR: the Two Towers came out, it caused controversy in American because people felt it was trying to make money of the tragedy of 9/11.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  4. #139
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    Although I really respected Ledger's portrayal, I was not a fan of the nihilistic, fatalistic approach to the Joker present in DKR. To me, the Phoenix version was closer to a plausible Joker, as an undirected agent of chaos (how I see Joker). The Phoenix version was still flawed for other reasons but I also respected the performance and thought he deserved to win.

    By the way - Joker and Parasite are the same movie and say the same things for the most part. The ending of both movies is even a bit vague and non-resolved, indicating that the problem between rich and poor, privileged and not, have and have-not is not going away anytime soon.
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  5. #140
    Astonishing Member Arfguy's Avatar
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    I was hoping 1917 would win Best Picture, but that didn't happen. I have a hard time believing a movie made in 2019 was better than 1917 (I have not seen Parasite), but I am not too broken up about it.
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  6. #141
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arfguy View Post
    I was hoping 1917 would win Best Picture, but that didn't happen. I have a hard time believing a movie made in 2019 was better than 1917 (I have not seen Parasite), but I am not too broken up about it.
    I've not seen it either. I loved 1917 (2019) sooooooo much. And Marriage Story (2019). I'd be SHOCKED if I loved Parasite more. No way do three films bust into my "Top 100" in the same year. But hey, who knows?
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  7. #142
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    I used to love the Oscars. I thought it was a great night to celebrate good film making and acting. There have been winners who have won in the past and some that didn't. I didn't watch the show last night but here are my thoughts on some of the winners:

    1. Best Actor- So now this award is going to go to future actors who play the Joker now? It might as well be renamed the Best Joker. I think Joaquin Phoenix is a great actor but Adam Driver deserved it this year for Marriage Story. Joker is a good movie but overpraised.

    2. Best Supporting Actor- I thought choosing an actor for the acting awards was based on the best performance for the year not a career award or a makeup award. All along I've been reading that Brad Pitt was a shoe in for the award because "it's his time now." The AFI has an award for career and Brad should have been awarded and recognized there not at these awards. OUATIH is a good movie and Brad is great in it and charming, but can you really say he was better than Joe Pesci and Al Pacino in The Irishman or Anthony Hopkins in Two Popes?

    3. Best Picture/Best Director/Best Original Screenplay/Best Foreign Language Film- Give the Foreign Language film to Parasite. I'm fine with it. The other awards...again there was backlash over the nominees being white and to make up for it they had to give out this award for representation. 1917 should have taken directing and Picture.

    4. Best Actress- They love giving awards to actors playing historical figures which is why Renee Zellweger won. Scarlett Johansson deserved it for Marriage Story.

    5. Best Documentary- American Factory got it because Barack and Michelle Obama were the producers and they wanted a chance to give him a standing ovation, make a political speech pandering to the left.

    Just a few observations. This is why I can't watch the show anymore. It used to be fun and exciting, not anymore. I'll always still be curious and follow who gets nominated every year and it's still a good chance during the year to see some good performances and movies.

    1. If that's the case, then Jared Leto and Jack Nicholson are still waiting for their Oscars. I can't speak to Marriage Story, but Joaquin Phoenix was AMAZING in Joker. He earned that Oscar.

    2. Um.... are you sure you've watched the Oscars before? They've done this before- an actor spends years getting praised for his or her performances, but never wins the statue. Then finally one year he has a performance that is good enough that, despite strong competition, they decide to give it to them. Not just an actor- all three Lord of the Rings movies were up for best picture, but they only gave it to Return of the King. That wasn't because it was the best, it was because the making of the three films were such an achievement that the Academy was going to have to award it Best Picture, so they gave it to the third movie in celebration of the whole series.

    3. This one, I kind of agree with. I never saw Parasite- never had an interest- but I thought the point of having a Best Foreign Film Oscar was so that a foreign film could be recognized as an outstanding picture, while an English movie could still be recognized for Best Picture. I found it odd that it got both, and I can't help but think the Academy did it to shut everyone up about the lack of diversity. At least until next year, when all white men get nominated again.

    4. Again, can't speak to Marriage Story, or Judy. You may be right in this case, or it may be some reluctance by the Academy to award a movie produced by Netflix.

    5. Got nothing here- didn't see any of them.

    Honestly, my biggest gripe with the Oscars this year was that 1917 got best VFX over Avengers: Endgame. Why, because they digitally recreated battle sites from WWI? Guess what- movies have been recreated battle sites from wars for years, and they did it the old fashioned way. Endgame gave us alien worlds, a massive battle, fully realized digital characters that emoted like real people (Hulk and Thanos), a freaking talking Raccoon that gave an excellent performance, and even digital uniforms for all of the Avengers. Those Quantum suits were all CGI, and not one was made. And it looked real. Bullshit that 1917 took that award.

  8. #143
    Astonishing Member Arfguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I've not seen it either. I loved 1917 (2019) sooooooo much. And Marriage Story (2019). I'd be SHOCKED if I loved Parasite more. No way do three films bust into my "Top 100" in the same year. But hey, who knows?
    I thought Marriage Story was a great movie, too. I was really taken aback by how good both Driver and Johansson were. Normally, I don't like a lot of dramatic movies, as I like genre movies more. Marriage Story was very unique to me. I am glad it got some awards recognition, as I am a big fan of Netflix.
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  9. #144
    Fantastic Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    President Trump continues to show his true colors. He attacked Parasite for winning best picture because it is a South Korean film. He wants the Oscars to go back to giving Gone with the Wind best picture. Gone with the Wind was a great film but it is dated.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...out-2020-02-20

    How can the Trump supporters continue to still deny this guy does not have racist undertones in his thinking. Why is he watching the Oscars? Doesn't he hate Hollywood.
    Last edited by Marvelgirl; 02-21-2020 at 01:02 AM.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    President Trump continues to show his true colors. He attacked Parasite for winning best picture because it is a South Korean film. He wants the Oscars to go back to giving Gone with the Wind best picture. Gone with the Wind was a great film but it is dated.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...out-2020-02-20

    How can the Trump supporters continue to still deny this guy does not have racist undertones in his thinking. Why is he watching the Oscars? Doesn't he hate Hollywood.
    He does not Need to watch the Oscars to Twitter About it. Seeing that Parasite won is enough to rant About Hollywood.

  11. #146
    Amazing Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    He does not Need to watch the Oscars to Twitter About it. Seeing that Parasite won is enough to rant About Hollywood.
    Mocking a film then immediately admitting you haven't seen it is a cornerstone of being a stable genius.

  12. #147
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    President Trump continues to show his true colors. He attacked Parasite for winning best picture because it is a South Korean film. He wants the Oscars to go back to giving Gone with the Wind best picture. Gone with the Wind was a great film but it is dated.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...out-2020-02-20

    How can the Trump supporters continue to still deny this guy does not have racist undertones in his thinking. Why is he watching the Oscars? Doesn't he hate Hollywood.
    I think Trump supporters have to divorce themselves from reality to justify things.
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  13. #148
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I think Trump supporters have to divorce themselves from reality to justify things.
    Just read the post by Kyer on this page.
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...kening/page611
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #149
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Just read the post by Kyer on this page.
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...kening/page611
    Yeah, I can't agree with much of anything there. Frankly, you have to have your head in the sand to believe that Trump is not a racist, the Democratic Party wants to outlaw guns, and that climate change doesn't exist.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  15. #150
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    OP post -

    The Oscars have always been a sham, IMHO. The event is nothing more than an internal industry lovefest with zero outside relevancy, zero impartiality, and zero accountability.
    Last edited by Celgress; 02-22-2020 at 06:43 PM.
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