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  1. #1
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    Default Bart vs Barry: Should this happen in the future ?

    When Barry Allen originally came back him and Bart didn’t get off to the right start. Now I cannot help but wonder if this could happen again given what happened to Wally and his own family. How Bart could accuse Barry of his lack of empathy for Wally’s situation and him not doing a thing about it and his own overall disregard for the Flash family ?

    Honestly I would love it if someone called Barry out over the distance he placed himself within the Flash family.

    As fans of both characters: What do you think of this idea ?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Honestly it’d be interesting to see how they’d react to each other, far as I recall Barry was never all to close to Bart compared to Max Mercury or Jay Garrick or even Wally but it’s not as if they hate each other give that they are family and have helped each other in the past like Flash: Rebirth or Infinite Crisis. But then again it might be a bit telling that Bart went to his friends in Young Justice instead of Barry. Not to mention if at this point Barry even remembers who Bart is.

    I think though that could come into conflict should they meet given that their relationship may not be as strong as Barry and Wally, but I can’t see it as a full fight then more of an argument, especially if Barry questions why if he’s been back why he never came to see him (before Young Justice where he got lost in the multiverse).
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I feel like it's a while before we should see two Flashes duking it out again, but... well, it's not hard to imagine that it could happen, or even handled well.
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  4. #4
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    Well, Bart doesn't really know Barry well enough to give him grief about how he's treated Wally.
    I hate that these two characters haven't interacted since Barry's return. It us just another missed opportunity storywise.
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  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Generally, how superheroes feel about one another doesn't matter to me. Banter, cutesy dialogue, petulant disagreements - it's been done to death and doesn't really mean anything. It's as formulaic as the hero kissing the love interest before going off to save the day.

    That said, were I a comics writer, I'd much rather churn out that kind of soapy stuff; it's definitely easier.

    Whereas writing something that crackles with energy, high concepts, sci fi elements and time travel? That's what most Flash stories should aspire to. Great stories can come from powerful people disagreeing, of course. But the Flash is an action / adventure / fantasy series about the Fastest Man Alive. It should be...that.

    Now, you could include this within a larger story - a panel or two to explain away or acknowledge conflicts from unrelated stories. But why bother acknowledging someone else's crappy stories? That just strikes me as wrong.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Well, Bart doesn't really know Barry well enough to give him grief about how he's treated Wally.
    I hate that these two characters haven't interacted since Barry's return. It us just another missed opportunity storywise.
    I’m glad they didn’t meet up yet to be honest. Don’t need Bart to be a speedster sidekick in the pages of Flash when he’s acting like a professional speedster in YJ.

  7. #7
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    In the 1990s and early 2000s, when Barry was still on the dead side of things, Bart regarded his late grandfather with a kind of reverence. At that point, Bart had never met the man, but only knew the legend. When they finally did meet in FLASH: REBIRTH, Bart seemed disappointed that the legend was merely human.

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  8. #8
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    Bart was disappointed that Barry came back and Max didn't, because Max was much more a grandfather/father figure to him than Barry's long distant idea ever was.

    Also it was kind of weird because Barry was supposed to always be dead, as otherwise he probably would've gone back to the future to raise his family (Dawn and Don and, of course, Bart) but they kind of gloss over nasty bit of narrative consequence.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Also it was kind of weird because Barry was supposed to always be dead, as otherwise he probably would've gone back to the future to raise his family (Dawn and Don and, of course, Bart) but they kind of gloss over nasty bit of narrative consequence.
    Iris raised Don and Dawn in the future without Barry, then travelled back to the present. Barry was revived in the present. If he then travelled to the future to raise Don and Dawn, he'd be rewriting Iris' past. He'd also be rewriting Bart's past by giving his father a different life, which could lead to Bart never being born.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Iris raised Don and Dawn in the future without Barry, then travelled back to the present. Barry was revived in the present. If he then travelled to the future to raise Don and Dawn, he'd be rewriting Iris' past. He'd also be rewriting Bart's past by giving his father a different life, which could lead to Bart never being born.
    This only works in a timeline where Barry stays dead, though. The idea that Iris raised Don and Dawn alone is founded on the premise that Barry was gone before he knew about them and never knew to go with them. Going to the future doesn't rewrite the past when that future is already two people who went to the future.

    It's screwed up because it necessitates one of two things: Barry never came back, or Barry never went to go raise his kids. And it clearly isn't an issue about time travel because they time traveled to the future for a happy ending in the first place.

    It's a big ol pit of nonsense and, as I said, they glossed over the narrative consequence of a whole cast of characters purely defined on the idea of Barry dying a hero in a world where Barry, relative to them, wasn't really dead. He came back to life centuries prior! As a matter of fact, Barry coming back to life at all already would've changed the history of the future all this stuff happens in. So riddance to that. Heck he'll go back in time to save his mom but won't go forward in time to, you know, ever meet his kids or raise them. If you're worried about him changing the relative history of people by travelling to the future then..uh, he travelled to the future already to have his kids, altering the entire timeline to do so! Imagine a future without the Tornado Twins -- No LoSH by that timeline's standards.

    Also, and here's the kicker for your argument, Bart is notoriously immune to time travelling affecting his history. The Bart we know and love would be unaffected by anything Barry did. Barry destroyed the whole universe, past and future, and Bart persevered through it. So if your argument is about what would happen to Bart, then the answer is nothing.
    Last edited by Dred; 02-11-2020 at 07:44 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    This only works in a timeline where Barry stays dead, though. The idea that Iris raised Don and Dawn alone is founded on the premise that Barry was gone before he knew about them and never knew to go with them. Going to the future doesn't rewrite the past when that future is already two people who went to the future.
    Let's say Iris spent 25 years in the future with Don and Dawn and infant Bart.

    She spent those 25 years without Barry.

    Then she came back to the present day, spent more time with Wally, Bart etc. Then Barry came back from the Speed Force.

    The only way Barry could raise Don and Dawn would be to change the past 25+ years of Iris's life, including all the time with Wally when she returned to the present.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Let's say Iris spent 25 years in the future with Don and Dawn and infant Bart.

    She spent those 25 years without Barry.

    Then she came back to the present day, spent more time with Wally, Bart etc. Then Barry came back from the Speed Force.

    The only way Barry could raise Don and Dawn would be to change the past 25+ years of Iris's life, including all the time with Wally when she returned to the present.
    This only works if Barry stays dead. Barry should've died and, in a timeline where he comes back to life, should've come back to life and gone to the future to raise his kids immediately (well, not immediately, he could've hung around and caught up with everyone before raising his children) and thus Iris never lives those 25 years. And, again, Barry time traveled to the future already to have those kids. He already changed the timeline by doing that. You can't just suddenly, now, start contemplating the lives you change if you were willing to do that in the first place.

    And those 25 years of Iris' life basically disappeared anyhow because the second Barry came back she was suddenly the same age as Wally. Somehow. Immediately deaged to youthfully pretty!

    You are assuming a universe where Barry is a deadbeat dad. Which is what we got. Because the entire history of this family of characters is predicated on Barry staying dead and he didn't. You can't assume Iris and Don and Dawn "already live their life" because that is only the case with the assumption that Barry was dead and never knew about them. Not the case anymore. So he just ends up being a deadbeat dad and, more onto the topic of the thread, deadbeat granddad. It is a narrative pitfall they just decided to ignore, but clearly exists.
    Last edited by Dred; 02-11-2020 at 08:20 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Isn’t it only hard to follow with the Tornado twins because they keep changing it along with the Legion of Superheroes whenever they do a future time reset? Besides the Allen family line is insane, Don and Dawn exist in the 30th century, Bart is from further in the future, XS exists in some timelines, Meloni Thawne had a child with Captain Boomerang who is the half brother of Bart, and there’s another separate timeline out there all together where Barry had kids with Jessica Cruz.

    Barry has a confusing future family timeline, no wonder the Young Justice cartoon simplified it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    This only works if Barry stays dead. Barry should've died and, in a timeline where he comes back to life, should've come back to life and gone to the future to raise his kids immediately
    You're assuming an immutable timeline, where all instances of time travel have already happened and been accounted for. We know that's not the case in the DC Universe, as we've seen time travel change history many times. If Barry went to raise his children, that would change the history of the Iris living in the present, which would also change the history of the Wally living in the present.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    The timeline worked fine until they decided to bring Barry back. Barry and Iris went to the future. They had Don and Dawn. Barry dies. Iris raises the kids alone. Dawn has baby Jenni while Don has baby Bart. Don and Dawn are killed by the Dominators. Jenni grows up and joins the Legion while Bart grows up in his VR world until coming to the past.

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