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  1. #1
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    Default Marvel 2020 (Iron Man, ForceWorks, etc)

    I know that there is a dedicated "Iron Man 2020 appreciation" thread. But, as with most "appreciation" threads, it includes a fair amount of looking back at old content. I am starting this thread for more focused discussion on the current "2020" comics.

    I am planning to read any series or one-shot with the 2020 imprint. Anyone else? What are you expecting or hoping for?


    My best guess is that 2020 as a whole is going to end with the adoption reveal (2013-2016) being undone.

    Tony has been "rebooted" in ways that would raise questions about exactly what he is (a human, a copy, whatever). And, the current "Iron Man 2020" series is about a robot revolution, complete with questions about how "legitimate" or "alive" artificial intelligence is. The likely resolution will probably be something like "current Tony, AI or not, is alive enough".

    There will probably be a reveal that Arno is some kind of AI, which will push him over the edge (and set him up to be a recurring bad guy until editorial forgets about him).

    It would make sense to reveal that the plot was orchestrated by Recorder 451 (an adversary from Gillen's run in 2013). 451 was part of the plot that revealed the (back-written) adoption. This was foisted on Gillen/Land as part of the set-up for Bendis' run on the series. (Bendis wanted to write about adoption. And, nobody was going to tell him "no", even when they should.)

    I know that some people have said that the mastermind characters should be Morgan Stark or the Mandarin.

    However, using 451 to undo the stupid adoption would containing away fromm other characters (allowing Marvel and us to move on and ignore the damned thing by the end of this year). Arno being worried about a space-based threat (as show in the first issue of "Iron Man 2020") in a series about a robot revolution might be hinting at the return of 451 (an alien built robot...that rebelled against his programming).


    I suspect that "Rescue 2020" will end with the Stark parents being revealed as fakes....and killed off (or captured as set-up for something in the main series).
    Current pull-file:

    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots and minis)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force


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    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

  2. #2
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    I don't find 451 interesting, at all, whatsoever, so using him to undo the adoption doesn't interest me. Whereas I'd love to see this all be part of some scheme by The Mandarin to destroy Tony Stark psychologically.

  3. #3
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    I am not saying it is going to read well. Once it starts in earnest, I expect a compilation's worth of moving characters and pieces towards a telegraphed ending.

    Using 451 ties the adoption reveal back to when Marvel originally foisted it on Gillen (and by extension us). I know that there is a fixation on the Mandarin. But, I really don't know where it came from.
    Current pull-file:

    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots and minis)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force


    -----------------------------
    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    I am not saying it is going to read well.
    No, using 451 would not read well. 451 is a boring character and should not be used. I don't care if using a more entertaining character would be more work; I'd still prefer they use a more entertaining character.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    - I hope they don't end up trashing Machine Man by the end of this as a second-rate human-hating Ultron wannabe. So far he seems a bit militant like Cyclops, but hasn't entered villain territory, so that's good.
    - I am looking to see how many references they might make to previous Iron Man 2020 stories. Not that they'd need to - having Arno is cool enough, but it'll be interesting to see if they actually fold in any of those older stories from the 2020 point of view now that we're here.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    - I hope they don't end up trashing Machine Man by the end of this as a second-rate human-hating Ultron wannabe. So far he seems a bit militant like Cyclops, but hasn't entered villain territory, so that's good.
    Marvel 1000, IIRC, suggested that there were now *two* Machine Men / Aaron Stack's, one being the dude who appears to have hair, appearing much like he did in Nextwave and being a snarky meatbag-hater, and the other being the old-school looking individual who seems to have gained cosmic awareness as a result of his time with the Celestials...

    That might be an attempt to 'save' the character from whatever corner he's being written into in this storyline, and could lead to a dilemna similar to what the mutants could be facing over in their corner of the universe; if multiple iterations of 'me' are running at the same time, which one is the 'real me?'

  7. #7
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    o, using 451 would not read well. 451 is a boring character and should not be used. I don't care if using a more entertaining character would be more work; I'd still prefer they use a more entertaining character.
    This is going to read stupidly no matter what character ends up being the mastermind.

    This hypothetical, but very likely, arc is essentially a back-written fix to a stupid back-write that never should have been approved.

    I have no problem with 451 (even if Gillen has over-played the "polite murder-bot" gimmick). But, in technical terms, it is better to use a forgettable/disposable character (such as 451) for something like this rather than a painfully dated character that people have an inexplicable fixation on (Mandarin) or an obscure character with history (such as Morgan Stark) or a character that Marvel is trying to push (Arno Stark).


    - I hope they don't end up trashing Machine Man by the end of this as a second-rate human-hating Ultron wannabe. So far he seems a bit militant like Cyclops, but hasn't entered villain territory, so that's good.
    Machine Man being a snarky asshole (by Warren Ellis) is the first time anybody gave a damn about the character. I think that is probably going to stick.


    - I am looking to see how many references they might make to previous Iron Man 2020 stories. Not that they'd need to - having Arno is cool enough, but it'll be interesting to see if they actually fold in any of those older stories from the 2020 point of view now that we're here.
    They might be setting up for some kind of riff on it. Arno and Bain are already working together.

    That "future" (the DeFalco/Trimpe series) was written out in Remender's run on "Uncanny Avengers". But, the DeFalco/Trimpe series was recognized in the recent "History of the Marvel Universe" (and Remender's "Uncanny Avengers" was ignored). So, who knows.


    Marvel 1000, IIRC, suggested that there were now *two* Machine Men / Aaron Stack's, one being the dude who appears to have hair, appearing much like he did in Nextwave and being a snarky meatbag-hater, and the other being the old-school looking individual who seems to have gained cosmic awareness as a result of his time with the Celestials...
    Marvel tried something similar with Star Lord shortly after "Annihilation Wave". But, Bendis specifically ignored it during "Original Sin".



    I admit that I am reading the 2020 stuff less because I anticipate it being good and more because I am legitimately curious about where Marvel is going with this.
    Current pull-file:

    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots and minis)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force


    -----------------------------
    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

  8. #8
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    Considering both Rhodey and Walker's brother Mike were both in Vietnam (now Siancong I guess since all the Vietnam vets are being retconned into that) it would be interesting if they met each other. Not saying they were friends but that they encountered each other once and Rhodey can tall Walker about it.

  9. #9
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    If Tony wasn’t going to be in it then I wasn’t buying. Now that he’s in everything I can’t wait for all the stories to come out. All the mini series have some enticing catch to them. It’s going hurt my wallet, but I’m ready lol.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member milton75's Avatar
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    I'm basically into it for a few reasons, none of which will happen and I'll be left disappointed.

    1) I'm hoping it's used as a way to bring Machine Man back to his previous demeanour. As already pointed out he seems to have been pushed into a rather one-dimensional embittered corner in recent years, and I'd like this undone.
    2) I was teased with some Death's Head involvement in Marvel 1001. This is now looking unlikely.
    3) As per the under-appreciated thread, this would have been a fun way to bring back Circuit Breaker. A war against robots could not fit better. It won't happen.
    4) I want to see the proper Arno Stark at some point. Not the stupid Tony's lost adopted brother one, the one we had already. Again, this seems unlikely.

    So yep, Marvel has got me over a barrel on this. I'm buying the comics but with a vague feeling of dread. At least I got a cool Roche variant cover out the event I guess.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member danielsan52's Avatar
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    Where is Spider-Girl 2020?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by milton75 View Post
    I'm basically into it for a few reasons, none of which will happen and I'll be left disappointed.

    1) I'm hoping it's used as a way to bring Machine Man back to his previous demeanour. As already pointed out he seems to have been pushed into a rather one-dimensional embittered corner in recent years, and I'd like this undone.
    2) I was teased with some Death's Head involvement in Marvel 1001. This is now looking unlikely.
    3) As per the under-appreciated thread, this would have been a fun way to bring back Circuit Breaker. A war against robots could not fit better. It won't happen.
    4) I want to see the proper Arno Stark at some point. Not the stupid Tony's lost adopted brother one, the one we had already. Again, this seems unlikely.

    So yep, Marvel has got me over a barrel on this. I'm buying the comics but with a vague feeling of dread. At least I got a cool Roche variant cover out the event I guess.
    If Marvel wanted to bring fake Arno and his Zombie virus from his universe to infect the prime universe go for it

  13. #13
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    Where is Spider-Girl 2020?
    Since the Spider-Girl in the original 2020 story wasn't Mayday or Anya (neither of them actually existed yet), they're probably just ignoring it as being too hard to move into the 616 universe.
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  14. #14
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    2) I was teased with some Death's Head involvement in Marvel 1001. This is now looking unlikely.
    Marvel just wrapped up a Death's Head series. (4, maybe 5, issues) Is that what you are thinking of?


    3) As per the under-appreciated thread, this would have been a fun way to bring back Circuit Breaker. A war against robots could not fit better. It won't happen.
    Oh hell no. Never gonna happen. (If nothing else, not having the "Transformers" license is reportedly a sore spot for Quesada. No way they are going to open that wound by using Circuit Breaker.)


    4) I want to see the proper Arno Stark at some point. Not the stupid Tony's lost adopted brother one, the one we had already. Again, this seems unlikely.
    I am going to say 50:50 odds on this one.

    In 2013/14, Marvel seemed ready to dispose of old Arno (as shown in Remender's "Uncanny Avengers"). But, Marvel included old Arno and the original 2020 timeline in the final issue of "History of the Marvel Universe". (This reference included the original Machine Man.)

    The biggest real problem with the original Arno is that Marvel attached a specific year to the character, and they kept doing so. Had they simply described Arno as "the Iron Man of the 21st Century" or "Tony's ne'er do well descendant", the character would have had a long shelf-life. (This is less excusable given that Marvel was starting to have problems with "catching up with the future" in the 1980s.) Tying the character to a specific year is not quite as bad as having the character call himself "the Iron Man of 2020" on page. But, it was still a blunder.

    It would be easy enough for Marvel to fudge the timeline a bit, and just say that Arno is from ~50 years in the future, while never giving an exact year. (Just like Peter Parker has always been Spider-Man for 10~15 years, Arno could always be from ~50 years in the future.) That is unlikely to happen this year. But, Marvel might go for that in another 2-3 (after we they get rid of, and we all forget about, current Arno).

    Speaking of oddities and Arno, am I the only one who has noticed that nobody seems to care about the original Arno's hometown getting nuked (in a Spider-Man annual)? The city itself is shown to be fine less than a year later. It is referenced, in passing, once, in a much later story. And, even then, nobody seems to give a damn.
    Current pull-file:

    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots and minis)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force


    -----------------------------
    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

  15. #15
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    Default Iron Man 2020 #2

    Iron Man 2020 #2:

    Has anyone else read it?

    Most plot stuff, with Arno v/s the robot rebellion escalating.

    Slott plays questions about the worst of AI for laughs. But, as those questions are still abstract for most people, that is allowable.

    Not happy about the price bump (with this issue being $5).
    Current pull-file:

    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots and minis)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force


    -----------------------------
    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

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