Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11,059

    Default Master Chief (HALO) versus Zoichi Kanoe (Biomega)

    The spartan Spartan takes on Toha Heavy Industries best product.

    Location: The City Block that was the location for the film DREDD. It is otherwise deserted. Chief starts off at the very top, Zoichi starts off from the very bottom.

    Stipulations:Neither of them have any guns to start with, but there is a healthy supply of Halo weaponry strewn throughout the tower block - no rocket launchers or similar heavy ordinance though. Solid rounds only.

    Neither knows where the other is or who it is that they are facing so standard knowledge does not apply.

    To start with; Chief gets an energy sword, Zoichi gets his axe.

    Who wins in this battle of space warriors with little AI lady companions?

    EDIT: To be clear, this is just Chief and Zoichi. Fuyu and Cortana are not actually present.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 02-13-2020 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    *Begins furiously researching Biomega*
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  3. #3
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    *Begins furiously researching Biomega*
    Haha, I'm at work but I can post some feats.

    The rough break down in bullet points:

    - Some degree of bullet timing, though I forget how good the exact feats are.
    - Super strength that he can fist fight metahuman opponents and do well. He's literally jumpkicked through the skull of a giant monster and has lifted multiton boulders. His best strength feat is bracing the force of the brainwave canon, whose recoil shook the island he was standing on, though the force of doing this left him in bad shape.
    - Very durable normally and can manifest an armoured form that amps him further. He's been punched through reinforced concrete columns, has jumped through laser fire with his armoured form, I'll need to look into this more closely.
    - An excellent shot, as AI assisted aiming.

    Pretty close to Chief, I think. So yeah. This is a battle of attrition and strategy more than a straight power-to-power battle.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Haha, I'm at work but I can post some feats.

    The rough break down in bullet points:

    - Some degree of bullet timing, though I forget how good the exact feats are.
    - Super strength that he can fist fight metahuman opponents and do well. He's literally jumpkicked through the skull of a giant monster and has lifted multiton boulders. His best strength feat is bracing the force of the brainwave canon, whose recoil shook the island he was standing on, though the force of doing this left him in bad shape.
    - Very durable normally and can manifest an armoured form that amps him further. He's been punched through reinforced concrete columns, has jumped through laser fire with his armoured form, I'll need to look into this more closely.
    - An excellent shot, as AI assisted aiming.

    Pretty close to Chief, I think. So yeah. This is a battle of attrition and strategy more than a straight power-to-power battle.
    I've been looking through a respect thread to shore up my base knowledge on the guy.

    I'm actually cool saying he has some degree of advantage in terms of his strength and speed. Possibly his aiming skills as well.

    There are multiple examples of what I'm looking through where he literally shoots missiles out of the air with his pistol. Another where a shoulder mounted rocket is fired at close range and he leans out of his trajectory with room to spare, mid launch.

    For strength, he punches the ground hard enough to crack the surface, Yuujiro Hanma style. He also tosses a dude over 100 feet into a small tower and damages the tower- supposedly the gravity is weak here.

    I'll respond with more of Chief's stuff in a minute. Have some chores to sort out.

    Can you tell me anything about his AI? How important is it to him in regards to boosting his function? Does it have experience fighting AI?
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  5. #5
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I've been looking through a respect thread to shore up my base knowledge on the guy.

    I'm actually cool saying he has some degree of advantage in terms of his strength and speed. Possibly his aiming skills as well.

    There are multiple examples of what I'm looking through where he literally shoots missiles out of the air with his pistol. Another where a shoulder mounted rocket is fired at close range and he leans out of his trajectory with room to spare, mid launch.
    I was spooling through the series and literally just got to that same feat. XD

    There's a nifty feat where he has a explosive bullet/shell fired at him and, when it's like three feet from him, he draws, aims and fires to shoot it out of the air. Guy is very quick on the draw and accurate.

    Against grunts, his standard entry is to just drop like... ten dudes with headshots in an instant.

    For strength, he punches the ground hard enough to crack the surface, Yuujiro Hanma style. He also tosses a dude over 100 feet into a small tower and damages the tower- supposedly the gravity is weak here.
    Yeah, the tower feat is under around just under 0.5 G. It's still a hell of a chuck but there is an asterisk next to that one. He also, under the same gravity, rather casually threw a baseball sized probe into low orbit.

    I don't recall the ground breaking feat... *looks up the respect thread I suspect you're looking at* ...hmm, that's on the low G megastructure and it is multiple hits rather than Yujiro doing the same thing with one punch.

    Can you tell me anything about his AI? How important is it to him in regards to boosting his function? Does it have experience fighting AI?
    Fuyu, his AI partner, doesn't specifically make him that much more powerful. The line of where Fuyu stops and Zoichi begins is a bit muddy. Zoichi does have onboard computation systems that seem to be distinct from Fuyu but she does help him in the sense that she does complex hacking and computations, acts as a second pair of eyes, she can control the bike that Zoichi drives and use it to fight.

    She also appears to help keep his physical systems in order. She analyses and monitors his biochemistry, helps synthesise antidotes to poisons, seems to activate his secondary armour, acts as radar in some senses, and directs the very rudimentary regeneration that he has.

    Hard to say. I don't think she's ever fought an AI off the top of my head. Biomega gets way into like... tech and biology mixing together.

    To point out, I wasn't envisaging Zoichi having his bike or Fuyu in this fight. It's just the man himself.

    Same with Chief, no AI assistance here.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 02-12-2020 at 09:10 AM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Ah, ok. Context is good. AI fight would have been interesting but fair enough.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  7. #7

    Default

    Ok, it's been a while since I've made a full recounting of Chief/Spartan feats, so this is a good opportunity to flex that muscle.

    Speed:

    Chief has multiple examples of "dancing" between incoming streams of air-to-ground fire from multiple Banshees. He slips and ducks between the bolts remarking that they are becoming better shots as the shooting continues. These are slower then bullets mind you, but there are many many projectiles. He doesnt have any cover and has to remain in the open to draw the Banshees into range of his trap.

    He literally disappears and reappears from sight some 4ish meters away from the perspective of a squad of marines in the battle of Mombasa. Like, ceases to be "here" and is suddenly "there".

    Moments after getting his first set of powered armor, he dodges a bullet from a 30 cal auto turret. The reason he is a "slow" bullet timer is because it was a decent range away from him and he knew it was about to shoot. And even then he is surprised that he managed to do it. Other bullets that were fired, he allowed to bounce off of his armor harmlessly. His armor is now 2-3 generations more advanced then this model.

    During a performance exercise, he is clocked at over 120kmph (I'm not totally certain on this figure - memory based) in a sprint.

    Before getting his armor, but right after augmentation, at the age of 14, he blitzes and accidentally kills 3 full grown men in a boxing match. A later recounting of this event described his punches as sounding like gunfire with the 3 men crumpling simultaneously.

    Also at 14 years old, post augmentation but before armor, he and his fellow spartans were out racing the auto targeting of training guns. This feels more like aim dodging imo.

    With Cortana and armor, he slaps a hyper sonic air-to-ground missile off course. This is more of a Cortana feat then anything. Asterisks etc.

    Strength:

    A smaller female Spartan in older armor uses a Mongoose ATV as a club, swinging it overhead with one arm.

    The same Spartan rips prison bars and a steel door apart with all the effort of shrugging.

    Chief grabs a 3.5 ton Warthog that is on it's backside and flips it into the air to get it back on its wheels.

    Spartan IV's (Locke's team) shoulder tackle through a 10 ton boulder in the opening sequence of Halo 5.

    Chief and other Spartans can punch through the armored cockpit of main battle tanks, both human and Covenant alike.

    Chief forces open a Covenant blast door.

    Durability:

    Chief tanks a fuel rod explosive with half shields remaining. This same projectile had flipped his Warthog head over bumper just moments before.

    Many, many examples of surviving orbital re-entry. Everyone from Chief to other Spartans (Noble 6, Fred etc) have managed this. This is the theoretical limit of their durability in my mind. They usually go briefly unconscious and generally are not too happy upon waking up. Fred's team needed to replace components of their armor post falling. Noble 6 started his next cutscene with a limp and the next mission in need of a med kit.

    I could post other durability stuff, but I feel like those few feats give the best idea of what he can and cannot trudge through.

    In conclusion: I still think this Biomega guy has some clear advantages. Unless you maybe feel differently based on what I've said, I feel like he has a decent speed edge and a slight aim/accuracy advantage. Strength is close, but if pressed I might side with Zoichi.

    Chief may have the necessary x-factor to win in the form of lasting power however. He appears to be the more durable of the two and a regenerative energy shield essentially functions as a healing factor.

    How well can Zoichi regen, if at all?

    Given the low caliber weaponry and the fight location, this battle likely drags on for quite some time as they feel each other out at range. Neither can decisively drop the other at that range.

    By the time Zoichi assesses the threat and makes the conclusion that a prolonged range battle works against him, it might be too late. I figure his physicality advantages will be nullified somewhat from damage accrued at range. When he gets in close to Chief, the dude will essentially be fresh in comparison.

    It's a VERY close fight from what I gather. Perhaps the closest Chief has had in his history on Rumbles.

    A different setting or different weapons could very well create a different outcome.

    Love to hear your thoughts on how they compare in stats and if you tend to agree or not! ^_^

    I might have to pick up this Manga.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 02-12-2020 at 02:38 PM.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  8. #8
    She/Her Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    21,472

    Default

    Chief also, in battered/outdated armor, basically ignored punches from Locke.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arx Inosaan

  9. #9
    She/Her Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    21,472

    Default

    There's also Chief specific stuff like his getting hit in the face by the fragments of a space ship while being sucked into a Gravity Well and it doing all of knock him out, but nothing else.

    EDIT: To clarify on the Locke punch, it did crack his faceplate. Which should at least attest to how hard an armored up spartan can punch.
    Last edited by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh; 02-12-2020 at 02:48 PM.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arx Inosaan

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    There's also Chief specific stuff like his getting hit in the face by the fragments of a space ship while being sucked into a Gravity Well and it doing all of knock him out, but nothing else.

    EDIT: To clarify on the Locke punch, it did crack his faceplate. Which should at least attest to how hard an armored up spartan can punch.
    Yeah, in H4 he basically ping pongs off of space debris on his way down to yet another orbital re-entry feat. Unconscious but otherwise ready to fight after the fact.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  11. #11
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11,059

    Default

    I'm gonna go through the Chief feats in more detail during today while I'm at work.

    I agree it's a pretty even fight though. That was my intention ^_^

  12. #12
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Ok, it's been a while since I've made a full recounting of Chief/Spartan feats, so this is a good opportunity to flex that muscle.

    ---snip---

    How well can Zoichi regen, if at all?

    Given the low caliber weaponry and the fight location, this battle likely drags on for quite some time as they feel each other out at range. Neither can decisively drop the other at that range.

    By the time Zoichi assesses the threat and makes the conclusion that a prolonged range battle works against him, it might be too late. I figure his physicality advantages will be nullified somewhat from damage accrued at range. When he gets in close to Chief, the dude will essentially be fresh in comparison.

    It's a VERY close fight from what I gather. Perhaps the closest Chief has had in his history on Rumbles.

    A different setting or different weapons could very well create a different outcome.

    Love to hear your thoughts on how they compare in stats and if you tend to agree or not! ^_^

    I might have to pick up this Manga.
    Right. Looking at what you've posted, I would pitch Zoichi as a little faster and stronger, Chief exceeds him on durability and the fact his shields regenerate pretty quickly.

    To your question, Zoichi's regeneration is imperfect but it's functional. Bullet wounds closer in a matter of minutes, stab wounds don't seem to slow him down that much. I can think of no less than three occasions when he gets stabbed straight through multiple times and it doesn't slow him down much.

    One on of those occasions, a powerful psychic blasts three metal spikes through his chest and the force of it smashes him through several foot thick reinforced concrete walls. This knocks him out for about a minute maybe? In that time, a group of mobs got a huge set of like mecha pincers to try and cut his limbs off and they couldn't breach his standard armour. Zoichi then got up and tore them all to pieces.

    If anything it seemed like it was more the being blasted through multiple walls that knocked him out than the stabbing.

    His best feat, towards the end of the story in the final push, he loses most of a leg, from like just below the knee. In mid step, his body grows a very rudimentary peg leg type of affair. It's also worth noting that he had also been stabbed with two broadswords and had a paralysing harpoon through his shoulder at the time so his regen was dealing with a lot. As noted though, he never gets real foot back, it's very functional rather than complete.

    Chief is definitely more durable at base, Zoichi's additional armoured membrane mode might make him competitive but I don't think he can keep that up indefinitely like Chief can with his Mjolnir armour.

    Chief effectively has to play keepaway because letting Zoichi into close range is a very bad idea, given how strong he is. The bigger issue of a battle of attrition is how long Chief can keep going. Zoichi and his siblings are stated to be able to survive for five years on "a minimal amount of water," and I don't know if Chief can necessarily go that distance.

    It's hard to say who wins. Hamstringing their weaponry and AI makes this much harder to figure out.

  13. #13

    Default

    Chief has far less endurance then that. I mean, its legendary by human standards. Like fight for over a week in HARD combat with only 3 hours of sleep and some water. No food.

    But this will be settled before food/water become issues imo.

    Yeah, Chief wants to hang back and try his best to wear him down.

    What's his Axe like? Chief can possibly end this with his sword, but again, close combat is where he will have to deal with a stat disparity.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  14. #14
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Chief has far less endurance then that. I mean, its legendary by human standards. Like fight for over a week in HARD combat with only 3 hours of sleep and some water. No food.

    But this will be settled before food/water become issues imo.

    Yeah, Chief wants to hang back and try his best to wear him down.

    What's his Axe like? Chief can possibly end this with his sword, but again, close combat is where he will have to deal with a stat disparity.
    His axe doesn't seem to be particularly special. I mean, it cleaves through giant-ish opponents pretty good and I think chops like cars in half and what have you.

    I'd be more afraid of Zoichi's punches. Dude hits ridiculously hard. But Zoichi has a bad track record against special swords, he took the most damage from those sorts of things.

  15. #15
    She/Her Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    21,472

    Default

    So I see this ending somewhat quickly about as often as it doesn't. Why? This is essentially the Pelican Missile feat. Zoichi is faster, but not to the point were Chief is a statue; and Cortana can and has done in-that-moment calculation to determine exactly when Chief needs to pivot and move his arm to properly parry something moving faster than him.

    With bullets being pretty worthless, and them finding that out rather quickly. Seems like Zoichi is going to want to close with the axe, and make with the chop... which may or may not work very well, given Chief's durability. A few swings at the least. Chief on the other hand has a sword that cleaves right through Spartan shielding and armor.

    Spartans also have feats for grappling with much stronger opponents (Brutes), and being able to last even after they've been pinned and the stronger opponent is literally repeatedly hammering on their chest (iirc, it managed to drain the shields but the Spartan was in trouble... but they detonated the mini nuclear battery in their armor). Which means he's cleaving Zoichi in half if he gets a solid hit.

    Thanks to Cortana, he'll be able to manage that.

    Clearly that's not a 100% strategy, lot of variables in this... but if it ever gets into a close-combat match? Chief wins.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arx Inosaan

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •