Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.

[Zaresh]

It sounds like, at best, Bruce and Jason should be considered equally horrible.

But I find the notion that "shooting bullets isn't a big deal, Bruce is a big boy and Jason knows where to aim" completely laughable and why it's getting increasingly difficult to take this character seriously. Like even if you know your friend or loved one was an expert marksman who would be able to miss you on purpose, I don't think you'd be calm, cool or collected if they still fired a fucking gun at you. Armor or no. Plus, y'know, I imagine having bullets go off near him in general is triggering for Bruce considering Crime Alley.

Anyway, I hate all of these people (either as they are now or always did) and just want Bat-continuity to get nuked and started over at this point. If 5G results in a reboot down the road, I can't say I'd miss prior canon all that much.

We're talking about cape comics. This would be a hilarious concept in the real world but it really isn't in this kind of comics. It happens all the time.

And didn't Bruce shoot Darkseid once? He's not afraid of guns. Hard to believe he would be that traumatized about people shooting at him when it's something that usually happens in his line of work.

[Rise]

It would be laughable if Batman isn't the guy who fought villains who are way bigger threat than Jason and "his bullets".

And Batman wasn't triggered by them nor it was his reason for beating Jason. Read the issue first so you would have a better understanding before you give your opinion about the situation.

[Jcady59]

If DC wants to write Bruce as an awful person then they are going to write him as an awful person, the characters around him have nothing to do with that fact. Lets not forget that the bat-family is also upset because of things that happened when Alfred was still alive, a character that is usually named as one of the people bringing out Bruce's better sides.

And we don't think he's a bad father because he doesn't spend all his time with his son, we think he's a bad father because he doesn't raise Damian at all right now. Nuance man, nuance.

That’s not true like at all, what do you think Lobedell wrote Bruce viciously beating Jason for Bruce’s benefit, no it was done for Jason and his story. Bruce has been written as terrible for the benefit of others for years now hell Rebirth is the epitome of this. In Batman it was for Selina and their relationship or the effectiveness of Thomas and Bane’s attacks on him, in red hood it was for Jason’s bat daddy angst which Jason needs to function as a character, in Detective it was done for the rest of the family giving us that stupid ass bat family drama so characters like steph and Barbara could stand up to the monstrous Batman. The only writers who didn’t write Bruce badly were Snyder, Tomasi, Priest and Robinson.

[Jcady59]

It sounds like, at best, Bruce and Jason should be considered equally horrible.

But I find the notion that "shooting bullets isn't a big deal, Bruce is a big boy and Jason knows where to aim" completely laughable and why it's getting increasingly difficult to take this character seriously. Like even if you know your friend or loved one was an expert marksman who would be able to miss you on purpose, I don't think you'd be calm, cool or collected if they still fired a fucking gun at you. Armor or no. Plus, y'know, I imagine having bullets go off near him in general is triggering for Bruce considering Crime Alley.

Anyway, I hate all of these people (either as they are now or always did) and just want Bat-continuity to get nuked and started over at this point. If 5G results in a reboot down the road, I can't say I'd miss prior canon all that much.

Honestly I’m right there with you I would take a million New 52 Bat lines and 2 Million DC you Bat lines then have to read anymore of this ****. It has gotten so bad that the only books I could stomach right now is an out of continuity bat book and Tomsai’s ok Detective and I’m reading that mainly for the upcoming Two-face story because let’s face it the only things coming out of this line looking good and smelling like roses(for the most part) are the villains And not our supposed heroes.

[Elmo]

the members of the Bat family are selfish and egotistical.

[SiegePerilous02]

We're talking about cape comics. This would be a hilarious concept in the real world but it really isn't in this kind of comics. It happens all the time.

And didn't Bruce shoot Darkseid once? He's not afraid of guns. Hard to believe he would be that traumatized about people shooting at him when it's something that usually happens in his line of work.

It would be laughable if Batman isn't the guy who fought villains who are way bigger threat than Jason and "his bullets".

And Batman wasn't triggered by them nor it was his reason for beating Jason. Read the issue first so you would have a better understanding before you give your opinion about the situation.

I really don't have to read the issue to know that starting an argument with bullets is really dumb. Yeah it's cape comics, but gun violence is a more grounded threat than most of the stuff that happens in them And Bruce, as he's broadly characterized, is never ok with guns. Even when he used it against Darkseid, he made a big deal that he was violating a rule. Even if he wasn't "triggered" in this situation, it's always a sure bet to piss him off.

And who cares if their are bigger villains? Does that mean any thug or villain who uses guns isn't considered a big deal because Darkseid's out there somewhere doing something completely unrelated? I don't see how it happening in his line of works doesn't make the person firing them off not an ******* at best. And like I said, I have an easy time believing Bruce is still written horribly in that issue because this is modern Bat-comics, so of course they both suck.

[Rise]

He was definitely written horribly and I was extremely disappointed in that issue because Lobdell was one of the few writers at that time who wrote Batman as decent person instead of giant hypocrite jerk. Still, I can't take anyone seriously who think "the bullets excuse" is legit. It's not the first time it happened and Batman didn't respond by beating people horribly over this nor Jason was aiming to hurt or kill him. So yes, you do need to read the issue first before you give your opinion about it.

[SiegePerilous02]

He was definitely written horribly and I was extremely disappointed in that issue because Lobdell was one of the few writers at that time who wrote Batman as decent person instead of giant hypocrite jerk. Still, I can't take anyone seriously who think "the bullets excuse" is legit. It's not the first time it happened and Batman didn't respond by beating people horribly over this nor Jason was aiming to hurt or kill him. So yes, you do need to read the issue first before you give your opinion about it.

This is why I was mostly refraining from doing anything but lurking for spoilers, and why I didn't comment on the previous scan of whatever was going on with Tim. And him punching Dick's tooth out I DID read, and I agree that that was dickish and unnecessary.

But bullets are bullets, and I have to agree with Godlike here. If guns are being fired, I find it very hard to believe that Jason should be considered some blameless woobie. It being considered not a big deal is too ludicrous even if what Bruce did was also shitty and a big deal.

[Rise]

Trust me, I don't think Jason is blameless and I have my issues with how he has been written since that issue. I simply don't agree that Batman somewho was justified like Godlike has been implying. Batman wasn't even reacting to the bullets nor even paying attention and it was Jason who was reacting by trying to defend himself because the former was coming off very aggressively at him before the latter simply give up. It's why I keep advising to read the issue.

In that situation, Batman undoubtedly was more in wrong than Jason and his reaction was way over the top. It doesn't mean I'm ok with how the situation was handled.

[Nite-Wing]

I think this is the breaking point for a lot of folks
You can character assassinate Bruce for only so long to prop up these upstart supporting characters before someone logically asks why Bruce is taking this crap from them.

I mean Alfred is dead that should be a huge thing for Bruce in and of itself but because DC bungles continuity like no other company a lot of the aftermath is being skipped over.

Suffice to say I think the constant bat jerk characterization is flanderized beyond the point of any of these characters logically wanting to be around Bruce outside of plot or status quo reasons.
If DC made a story out of this I'd say its about time but nope we'll get 5g soon and when that's over they'll all be back as the most dysfunctional family in comic book history

[Nick Miller]

Bruce should have beat all their asses. Its what Alfred would have wanted.

[Frontier]

I think this is the breaking point for a lot of folks
You can character assassinate Bruce for only so long to prop up these upstart supporting characters before someone logically asks why Bruce is taking this crap from them.

I mean Alfred is dead that should be a huge thing for Bruce in and of itself but because DC bungles continuity like no other company a lot of the aftermath is being skipped over.

Suffice to say I think the constant bat jerk characterization is flanderized beyond the point of any of these characters logically wanting to be around Bruce outside of plot or status quo reasons.
If DC made a story out of this I'd say its about time but nope we'll get 5g soon and when that's over they'll all be back as the most dysfunctional family in comic book history

When was the last time the Family seemed semi-functioning or like they got along for the most part? Early New 52? Early Rebirth?

[millernumber1]

When was the last time the Family seemed semi-functioning or like they got along for the most part? Early New 52? Early Rebirth?

Tynion wrote them as mostly functioning in Detective, though by 975, there clearly was a lot of friction - but they still could get together and talk without storming out.

[Dazai_Osamu]

But hasn't the elephant already been beaten to death by this point?

"ridiculous rebuild of the city?" This is Tynion's Tim talking about over complicated redesigns and putting yourself completely into your work?

It's preposterous to rebuild his city before his family, they're barely a family and that should be the priority. His plan to rebuild the city deserves another thread but I find him too desconnected of the common citizen, they want stability and no more changes and well since I read about his rebuilding I thought wow Bruce decided the great eviction of the gotham poorest people, after all urban developments almost always kick poor people out of the areas which will be rebuild/renovate.

[Dazai_Osamu]

How about the notion that Tim is some miraculous savior Bruce needs right now, or that Bruce is actually pushing any of them away or is lost.

He was the savior of Bruce, it's his canonical origin story which was brought back by Tynion. But I agree with Jason a teen shouldn't have to become the emotional balance and brake of an adult like tiny Tim did it.

None of them went after Damian either BTW. In the end most were just taking down to him telling him what he needs to do.

Well Damian is a jerk and doesn't have a relationship with the others because he's always verbally abusive and sometimes he's physically abusive and there are reasons but these don't justification him, he's a jerk with Tim whom he tried to kill twice, and he's still verbally and physical abusive (now less) with him. They don't love each other, they don't like each other even if they are brothers now, I mean Tim lives with Bruce and both of his parents are dead and his original origin story is back so I think he was adopted but you don't have to love or be nice with an unbearable and abusive relative, and if TimÂ’s only Bruce's ward then there's even less reason to be nice and go after Damian. As current canon Jason was Bruce's ward and that sucks but Damian and him had fought a few times and they aren't nice with each other, but why should Jason help Damian? Damian said he was Leviathan and didn't have any proof, before that he went to attack Jason and accused him of trying to kill him and the Teen Titans and he also didn't have any proof, at that time Jason was mourning Roy and was a bit drunk Damian gave him a surprise attack and after that Jason beat Damian down so they have an antagonist relationship right now.

Bruce is the one who had to go after Damian, he's his father and the jerk who caused this trauma and well it left me the impression the family didn't know Damian went to Gotham by Bruce's orders. Also it seemed Bruce hasn't talked with Damian to tell him he was wrong regarding Alfred he couldn't forsee what Alfred would do and Damian's mission was fated to failure and it wasn't his fault but his and Bane's.

I thought it was interesting to have Tim bring up his origin — he began by helping Bruce out of a similar place after Jason's death — and in Lonely Place of Dying, the major thing about Tim is he just isn't going to take "no" for an answer from Batman. He's signing up to help, like it or not.

As gregpersons said he's changed,Tim has changed form his tiny, naive and idealist persona who worshiped Batman and Robin's as symbols but he knows better here and in a Lonely Place of Dying he was too stuborn but he got the support of Dick and Alfred.