Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.

[Godlike13]

Guess he could have took Dick to the dentist, but he apologized for that. The others were justified.

[Blue22]

Oh we're still buying King's "that punch proved to the family he's not crazy" bullshit? Like that wasn't just another convenient way to justify him beating on his sons? That made about as much sense as all of them taking an L to an already injured Thomas Wayne. Or Bane's entire plan in general. The entire latter half of that run was pure nonsense and just made me feel like the family's disappointment in Bruce today was even more justified.

And just to be fair, I re-read the issue to make sure I wasn't just reacting to it on my initial emotions and overall annoyance of the direction the family's been going in for the past couple of years. I thought maybe I was being too hard on Bruce. But no....in fact, rereading it made me realize that, save for Barbara, they weren't really being that mean or antagonistic towards Bruce. Tim and Jason both calmly expressed their totally valid disappointment in him. ****, Tim was being nicer about it than he could have been. All he wanted to do was help, and for Bruce to actually say he needed help (Which he does!)


Where was the lie in anything he said here? Where was meanness? Where was he treating Bruce like crap? ****, Jason was the nicest to him and still told him the truth



The only one who really flew off the handle is Barbara, but feel like even that was an appropriate response to Bruce doing nothing while his family was falling apart around him again. While his son walked out, still believing Alfred's death was his fault. It doesn't matter if none of them like Damian. You don't have to like someone or have any kind of relationship with them to know when they're being treated poorly. Alfred may have kept the family together but Bruce is the one who started it. Bruce is the one who wanted it. They are his responsibilities and they look to him for guidance as a leader and as a father figure. But now he's spent the past couple of years being neither of those things to any of them because he's been so preoccupied chasing a cat who's been giving him the run-around for years...and I say this as an AVID supporter of BatCat XD

[Zaresh]

Guess he could have took Dick to the dentist, but he apologized for that. The others were justified.

I doubt he would even need to take Dick to a dentist. He more than likely has the means to take out that tooth in the cave. Apologizing is really good, but thinking before doing the deed is better.
How is justifiable the one with Tim?
And Jason was going to react way better to him Talking than him punching.

I mean, it's the writers choice to be that dramatic, but, eh... It's still something that happened. Unless we decide that they didn't just like we do with other bad choices in writing. But then, with how Bruce is being written, that would be a lot of moments here and there. Many are calling the current Bruce "BatJerk" for a reason.

[Godlike13]

Oh we're still buying King's "that punch proved to the family he's not crazy" bullshit? Like that wasn't just another convenient way to justify him beating on his sons? That made about as much sense as all of them taking an L to an already injured Thomas Wayne. Or Bane's entire plan in general. The entire latter half of that run was pure nonsense and just made me feel like the family's disappointment in Bruce today was even more justified.

And just to be fair, I re-read the issue to make sure I wasn't just reacting to it on my initial emotions and overall annoyance of the direction the family's been going in for the past couple of years. I thought maybe I was being too hard on Bruce. But no....in fact, rereading it made me realize that, save for Barbara, they weren't really being that mean or antagonistic towards Bruce. Tim and Jason both calmly expressed their totally valid disappointment in him. ****, Tim was being nicer about it than he could have been. All he wanted to do was help, and for Bruce to actually say he needed help (Which he does!)


Where was the lie in anything he said here? Where was meanness? Where was he treating Bruce like crap? ****, Jason was the nicest to him and still told him the truth



The only one who really flew off the handle is Barbara, but feel like even that was an appropriate response to Bruce doing nothing while his family was falling apart around him again. While his son walked out, still believing Alfred's death was his fault. It doesn't matter if none of them like Damian. You don't have to like someone or have any kind of relationship with them to know when they're being treated poorly. Alfred may have kept the family together but Bruce is the one who started it. Bruce is the one who wanted it. They are his responsibilities and they look to him for guidance as a leader and as a father figure. But now he's spent the past couple of years being neither of those things to any of them because he's been so preoccupied chasing a cat who's been giving him the run-around for years...and I say this as an AVID supporter of BatCat XD

How about the notion that Tim is some miraculous savior Bruce needs right now, or that Bruce is actually pushing any of them away or is lost. None of them went after Damian either BTW. In the end most were just taking down to him telling him what he needs to do.

[Zaresh]

How about the notion that Tim is some miraculous savior Bruce needs right now, or that Bruce is actually pushing any of them away or is lost. None of them went after Damian either BTW. In the end they all are taking down to him telling him what he needs to do.

What has that to do with Bruce punching Tim when he's the spokesperson of the present family telling him that they can help him? How anything of what you mention justifies someone punching someone else who is offering support?

And the one who should go after Damian is Bruce. As you know, he's not going to listen to anyone else. He's not going to believe Barbara, or Jason, or Tim telling him it wasn't his fault (in the case any of them would, I mean). And DickRic is clearly taking no part in the familial drama, so he's not going to go after him either. Bruce is his parent, the person Damian respects more of all of them (but maybe Dick), and the actual responsible of Damian going to Gotham. It's hiim who has to do it.

[protege]

100% agree! The Batfamily is truly the worst and its books like these that make me wish for a separation between Batman and the Family. Bruce is always made out to be the bad guy, always gets the blame for any and everything. I want Bruce to wash his hands of the Family, just be done with them, at this point he's just their whipping boy. He dosen't need them and they do absolutely nothing for him. He would be much better off without them.

What do you think the bat fam would do if Batman washed his hands of them? Would they hang up the capes? I’d really like Damian to go off to boarding school or something- by the way, was duke there?

[Godlike13]

I doubt he would even need to take Dick to a dentist. He more than likely has the means to take out that tooth in the cave. Apologizing is really good, but thinking before doing the deed is better.
How is justifiable the one with Tim?
And Jason was going to react way better to him Talking than him punching.

I mean, it's the writers choice to be that dramatic, but, eh... It's still something that happened. Unless we decide that they didn't just like we do with other bad choices in writing. But then, with how Bruce is being written, that would be a lot of moments here and there. Many are calling the current Bruce "BatJerk" for a reason.

With Tim it was part of a ploy, and Jason was shooting bullets at him.

[Frontier]

I mean, you can't really start doing the recovery until you actually address the elephant in the room

But hasn't the elephant already been beaten to death by this point?

Oh we're still buying King's "that punch proved to the family he's not crazy" bullshit? Like that wasn't just another convenient way to justify him beating on his sons? That made about as much sense as all of them taking an L to an already injured Thomas Wayne. Or Bane's entire plan in general. The entire latter half of that run was pure nonsense and just made me feel like the family's disappointment in Bruce today was even more justified.

And just to be fair, I re-read the issue to make sure I wasn't just reacting to it on my initial emotions and overall annoyance of the direction the family's been going in for the past couple of years. I thought maybe I was being too hard on Bruce. But no....in fact, rereading it made me realize that, save for Barbara, they weren't really being that mean or antagonistic towards Bruce. Tim and Jason both calmly expressed their totally valid disappointment in him. ****, Tim was being nicer about it than he could have been. All he wanted to do was help, and for Bruce to actually say he needed help (Which he does!)


Where was the lie in anything he said here? Where was meanness? Where was he treating Bruce like crap? ****, Jason was the nicest to him and still told him the truth



The only one who really flew off the handle is Barbara, but feel like even that was an appropriate response to Bruce doing nothing while his family was falling apart around him again. While his son walked out, still believing Alfred's death was his fault. It doesn't matter if none of them like Damian. You don't have to like someone or have any kind of relationship with them to know when they're being treated poorly. Alfred may have kept the family together but Bruce is the one who started it. Bruce is the one who wanted it. They are his responsibilities and they look to him for guidance as a leader and as a father figure. But now he's spent the past couple of years being neither of those things to any of them because he's been so preoccupied chasing a cat who's been giving him the run-around for years...and I say this as an AVID supporter of BatCat XD

"ridiculous rebuild of the city?" This is Tynion's Tim talking about over complicated redesigns and putting yourself completely into your work?

I honestly don't really fault Bruce for his response. It would be unfair of him to ask Tim to drop everything just to help and support Bruce while he's hurting when Tim's got his own life and team now and is his own man. It shouldn't be Tim's job to have to help him get through this, and even Jason acknowledges this.

This seems like a testament to the real trap of the modern Batfamily where they want to be close but have become too independent to really realize it.

[Blue22]

How about the notion that Tim is some miraculous savior Bruce needs right now

Literally all he said was that he wanted to help (both now and back then) and that he became Robin because he wanted to get Bruce through a tough time in his life, which he did. That's always been Tim's origin story. He saw Batman acting OOC after Jason's death. He wanted to help. And he did.

or that Bruce is actually pushing any of them away or is lost.

Bruce has been lost almost since Rebirth began and he's always pushing the people in his life away. That's kind of one of his many "things". That ridiculous notion writers have that Batman needs to be alone. Hell, by doing absolutely nothing while all of his sons are hurting, he is actively pushing them all away in this very book.

None of them went after Damian either BTW.

They didn't. And at least one of them definitely could have tried. I'll give you that. But none of them are Dick. None of them are the boy's father. Dick isn't there but Bruce definitely was. It's not their job to comfort him when he's depressed and blaming himself for something he had no control over. That's what a parent is for. When my grandmother passed away, my parents were a wreck but their priority was still making sure that my siblings and I were alright. Because that's what parents do. And our situation was, obviously, nowhere near as extreme as Damian's. Grandma passed away in her sleep. Damian had to watch Alfred get his neck snapped after he went into Gotham to rescue him. I can overlook this if they show that (at least once before this book took place) he tried to reach out to Damian and tell him that this wasn't his fault. If they show at some point that he wasn't really letting his own kid go all this time believing that he's responsible for Alfred's death. But if not then **** Bruce. I hope Alfred's ghost tells him off too.

[Godlike13]

What has that to do with Bruce punching Tim when he's the spokesperson of the present family telling him that they can help him? How anything of what you mention justifies someone punching someone else who is offering support?

And the one who should go after Damian is Bruce. As you know, he's not going to listen to anyone else. He's not going to believe Barbara, or Jason, or Tim telling him it wasn't his fault (in the case any of them would, I mean). And DickRic is clearly taking no part in the familial drama, so he's not going to go after him either. Bruce is his parent, the person Damian respects more of all of them (but maybe Dick), and the actual responsible of Damian going to Gotham. It's hiim who has to do it.

Bruce punched Tim for a reason, convenient as it might be. And Dick probably would have had went after him, why cause he built an actual relationship with him. Yes Bruce is wrong with how he deals with Damian, but they are not better when it comes to Damian.

[protege]

Oh we're still buying King's "that punch proved to the family he's not crazy" bullshit? Like that wasn't just another convenient way to justify him beating on his sons? That made about as much sense as all of them taking an L to an already injured Thomas Wayne. Or Bane's entire plan in general. The entire latter half of that run was pure nonsense and just made me feel like the family's disappointment in Bruce today was even more justified.

And just to be fair, I re-read the issue to make sure I wasn't just reacting to it on my initial emotions and overall annoyance of the direction the family's been going in for the past couple of years. I thought maybe I was being too hard on Bruce. But no....in fact, rereading it made me realize that, save for Barbara, they weren't really being that mean or antagonistic towards Bruce. Tim and Jason both calmly expressed their totally valid disappointment in him. ****, Tim was being nicer about it than he could have been. All he wanted to do was help, and for Bruce to actually say he needed help (Which he does!)


Where was the lie in anything he said here? Where was meanness? Where was he treating Bruce like crap? ****, Jason was the nicest to him and still told him the truth



The only one who really flew off the handle is Barbara, but feel like even that was an appropriate response to Bruce doing nothing while his family was falling apart around him again. While his son walked out, still believing Alfred's death was his fault. It doesn't matter if none of them like Damian. You don't have to like someone or have any kind of relationship with them to know when they're being treated poorly. Alfred may have kept the family together but Bruce is the one who started it. Bruce is the one who wanted it. They are his responsibilities and they look to him for guidance as a leader and as a father figure. But now he's spent the past couple of years being neither of those things to any of them because he's been so preoccupied chasing a cat who's been giving him the run-around for years...and I say this as an AVID supporter of BatCat XD

I think the thing that bothers me the most is Tim wanting to move in and try to help fix Bruce. Bruce has to want to fix himself. No one else can do that for him. But I’m still wondering if we’re not just losing Bruce, we’re losing the entire bat family over this.

[Blue22]

Yes Bruce is wrong with how he deals with Damian, but they are not better when it comes to Damian.

The difference here is, none of them need to be better. None of them have much of a relationship with him, anyway. Damian is his son. Not theirs. They're the ones that could have done something but he's the only one that needed to do something. Knowing Damian, anything they had to say would just be empty words. He needed to hear something from his father.

[Zaresh]

With Tim it was part of a ploy, and Jason was shooting bullets at him.

Bruce punched Tim for a reason, convenient as it might be. And Dick probably would have had went after him, why cause he built an actual relationship with him. Yes Bruce is wrong with how he deals with Damian, but they are not better when it comes to Damian.

Jason was shooting, but not aiming to kill him. At that distance, do you seriously believe he was shooting at Bruce? Shooting to kill? Jason, who is a very good shoot, who knows how to fight as good if not better than Damian and has a build almost like Bruce? I know this is an old discussion, btu really, Jason wasn't fighting back. What he did was the vigilante equivalent to pushing someone when you want to be alone.

Tim: that's a load of crap, and my point still stands. There were better ways to achieve the same.

[Godlike13]

Literally all he said was that he wanted to help (both now and back then) and that he became Robin because he wanted to get Bruce through a tough time in his life, which he did. That's always been Tim's origin story. He saw Batman acting OOC after Jason's death. He wanted to help. And he did.

Bruce has been lost almost since Rebirth began and he's always pushing the people in his life away. That's kind of one of his many "things". That ridiculous notion writers have that Batman needs to be alone. Hell, by doing absolutely nothing while all of his sons are hurting, he is actively pushing them all away in this very book.

They didn't. And at least one of them definitely could have tried. I'll give you that. But none of them are Dick. None of them are the boy's father. Dick isn't there but Bruce definitely was. It's not their job to comfort him when he's depressed and blaming himself for something he had no control over. That's what a parent is for. When my grandmother passed away, my parents were a wreck but their priority was still making sure that my siblings and I were alright. Because that's what parents do. And our situation was, obviously, nowhere near as extreme as Damian's. Grandma passed away in her sleep. Damian had to watch Alfred get his neck snapped after he went into Gotham to rescue him. I can overlook this if they show that (at least once before this book took place) he tried to reach out to Damian and tell him that this wasn't his fault. If they show at some point that he wasn't really letting his own kid go all this time believing that he's responsible for Alfred's death. But if not then **** Bruce. I hope Alfred's ghost tells him off too.

Who says Bruce needs his help. He has Selina for support. Rebuilding the city, yes how ridiculous. Pushing the family away, where is this. He had them help with Bane. Bruce doesn’t know how to handle Damian, but that has always been a barrier between Bruce and Damian. But now they care? Babs, as big a fan as I am, has no relationship with the kid, and Tim and Jason are actively antagonistic towards him.

[Triniking1234]

Not bad.

But then I see Alfred still alive in Justice League 40.