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  1. #721
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I think given how this issue ended that we are in with issue 6 and 7 of nothing but just big battles, and personally I am okay with that because Snyder just pulled a Smash Bros "they are all here" through the power of the multiverse and black lanterns. Villains, Heroes, Anti-heroes from all walks of life just ready to duke it out.

    Plus I guess we get some confirmations on Wonder Woman fighting Perpetua and what is going on with Batman right now but honestly they feel really small in comparison to what else is going on.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  2. #722
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    Really hoped Scott Snyder could go deeper into these fights. Not just one shot everyone.
    Feels empty when you have all the Big Epic premises but no Real Content.
    It's like these Gourmet Burger but no Meat or Bacon in between.
    I guess it's mostly story driven nowadays.
    Greg Capullo's art is pretty good though.

  3. #723
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    Just two responses in four days after the latest issue shows how much the event has disapointed readers i think.

    While i think the thing looks good (i mean Capullo is always A game), it has massive pacing and content problems. The biggest are:

    1. Weak lead-in: The Forge and Dark Days were bangers and hyped you up for Metal 1. They teased things, brought favorites back and showed scoope. I think DM suffers, because the lead-in underwelmed a lot of readers with the 'Year of the Villain' and the end of the - dimissive - JL run. I think this was worse, because DM has a rather harsh start.

    2. Why did we need the Metal-verse? As far as i think, only the JL issues and the Guidebook used the concept of a brand new world in real ways. Everything else coudl have been done in the normal prime earth. Castle-Bat or an Apokalypse-Moon were no bigger changes to the world than in Metal 1. Why change the world and do nothing with it.

    3. So much stuff is introduced or set-up, but then not really used or without any impact:
    [SPOILER]
    - The Dark Knights are back, but as puppets for 2 panels.
    - America is a wasteland ruled by a Dr.Strange Batman who dies in one panel after the heroes cross the wasteland in a cliffhanger
    - they use a big robot to save superman, but they discard it after the first panel of the next issue.
    - Batman is dead, but this changes nothing. He acts like a normal Batman
    - Superman can't change back from his Darkseid treatment, but how does this change things?
    - and a few more [/SPOILER]

    4. How often did we have to hear the plan of Wonder Woman? Four times in the first four issues and Trinity Crisis? Seems almost as excessive as the story of Krakoa and Arako in X of Swords :P

  4. #724
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serd View Post
    Just two responses in four days after the latest issue shows how much the event has disapointed readers i think.
    Fans tend to talk more about what they're upset about than the stuff they're enjoying. The readers who are enjoying this story are enjoying it, but I suspect nobody posted about this issue because Snyder had spoiled virtually everything that took place in it months ago in various interviews, so there isn't much to discuss aside from Capullo's awesome art.

  5. #725
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serd View Post
    Just two responses in four days after the latest issue shows how much the event has disapointed readers i think.

    While i think the thing looks good (i mean Capullo is always A game), it has massive pacing and content problems. The biggest are:

    1. Weak lead-in: The Forge and Dark Days were bangers and hyped you up for Metal 1. They teased things, brought favorites back and showed scoope. I think DM suffers, because the lead-in underwelmed a lot of readers with the 'Year of the Villain' and the end of the - dimissive - JL run. I think this was worse, because DM has a rather harsh start.

    2. Why did we need the Metal-verse? As far as i think, only the JL issues and the Guidebook used the concept of a brand new world in real ways. Everything else coudl have been done in the normal prime earth. Castle-Bat or an Apokalypse-Moon were no bigger changes to the world than in Metal 1. Why change the world and do nothing with it.

    3. So much stuff is introduced or set-up, but then not really used or without any impact:
    [SPOILER]
    - The Dark Knights are back, but as puppets for 2 panels.
    - America is a wasteland ruled by a Dr.Strange Batman who dies in one panel after the heroes cross the wasteland in a cliffhanger
    - they use a big robot to save superman, but they discard it after the first panel of the next issue.
    - Batman is dead, but this changes nothing. He acts like a normal Batman
    - Superman can't change back from his Darkseid treatment, but how does this change things?
    - and a few more [/SPOILER]

    4. How often did we have to hear the plan of Wonder Woman? Four times in the first four issues and Trinity Crisis? Seems almost as excessive as the story of Krakoa and Arako in X of Swords :P
    I vastly preferred Metal 1. I agree, the buildup and lead to the event was better

    I never realized how this event is a lot like Secret Wars but less interesting. I personally feel like the whole metal-verse Earth could've been way better if it wasn't centered around Batman. I just reread Secret Wars and Battleworld was so much a "celebration" or acknowledgment of the MU while Metal-verse was just Bat-Swamp or United States of Bats or whatever.

    The dark takes on the different multiverses or really different storylines didn't interest me and I would've much preferred to see more tie-ins with the main Earth heroes. I actually liked the Doom Metal JL tie-ins. Seeing Kory, Vic and Dick together was awesome. I mean we got a whole shot of Wondy freeing the heroes but really didn't see them do much.

  6. #726
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    I wonder if we’ll get an explanation as to how dead Batman can be brought back with a Black Lantern ring and look and act normal. He’s not a necrotic mindless zombie killing in the name of Nekron. Is the answer just “because he’s Batman”?

    This series is full of Snyder’s crazy ideas that lead no where.
    Last edited by Robotman; 11-21-2020 at 08:53 AM.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    I vastly preferred Metal 1. I agree, the buildup and lead to the event was better

    I never realized how this event is a lot like Secret Wars but less interesting. I personally feel like the whole metal-verse Earth could've been way better if it wasn't centered around Batman. I just reread Secret Wars and Battleworld was so much a "celebration" or acknowledgment of the MU while Metal-verse was just Bat-Swamp or United States of Bats or whatever.

    The dark takes on the different multiverses or really different storylines didn't interest me and I would've much preferred to see more tie-ins with the main Earth heroes. I actually liked the Doom Metal JL tie-ins. Seeing Kory, Vic and Dick together was awesome. I mean we got a whole shot of Wondy freeing the heroes but really didn't see them do much.
    Agreed - this whole Metal idea is a poor copy of Secret Wars. Similar ingredients - universal/cosmic entity to fight against, alternate versions of characters we know, new regions/countries ruled by characters, and a more human-level bad guy. But the execution, and the results are drastically different. Secret Wars presents a new world, and stories that play in that new world. Metal also presents a new world, but really only has stories about evil Batmans and Robins', that don't require their to even be a new world.

    The Secret War tie-ins were interesting in that they all did different things - showed how different characters we know would be like in different environments, tell stories of how the world of Secret Wars functions (ie. having Thor cops, how characters protect battlerealm against zombies/robots). Many of these stories required the world of Secret Wars to be present to tell the story.

    In contrast, Metal tie-ins are basically just more Bruce Wayne but if X happened instead. They don't funnel into the world Metal is creating (ie. Explain how Castle Bat would function day-to-day for example), but instead are basically telling the same story over and over. I tried giving Justice League a shot, but the story didn't interest me. They are essentially Elseworld stories, and don't require the Metal world to be present to tell the story.

    I did enjoy the Hush tie-in though. It smartly didn't focus on Batman turned evil, but instead focused on what this world in Metal has created, and how batman would interact with it.

    Secret Wars has Doctor Doom as the villain who is interesting because he is not an out and out bad guy - he did in fact save the universe when it was being destroyed by the Beyonders. There was methodical build up (Avengers and New Avengers), that culminated in Secret Wars. The Beyonders were the cosmic villains, but ultimately meaningless as a villain since the scale is so incomprehensible. Hickman correctly made Doctor Doom the centerpiece of Secret War - the anti-hero/villain for the heroes to fight against. Although he did have cosmic-level powers, the conflict ultimately boiled down into human beliefs and ideology. The final battle between Mister Fantastic and Doom was impressive - they were ultimately fighting for their conflicting viewpoints on how to save the world.

    Metal fails in that the conflict is ultimately just good versus evil, without much flavoring beyond that. Perpetua kind of fits the same role as the Beyonders, but since she is still present in this Metal series, she is too much of an abstract villain for our heroes to fight against. So ultimately the conflict doesn't feel like it means anything.

    Batman Who Laughs could sub in for the Doctor Doom role, but he is an out and out villain with no redeeming qualities. He is essentially Joker with Batman-level plot armor. It is not interesting to read about our heroes come into conflict with him, cause he has no reason for being evil except that he is evil (that's my main problem with Joker and Joker-centric stories, by the way). With the way the character has been presented, there is no way for the fight against BWL to be anything than good versus evil.

  8. #728
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    Basically the difference is that Marvel is a universe shared by many superheroes, DC is a Batman universe.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Fans tend to talk more about what they're upset about than the stuff they're enjoying. The readers who are enjoying this story are enjoying it, but I suspect nobody posted about this issue because Snyder had spoiled virtually everything that took place in it months ago in various interviews, so there isn't much to discuss aside from Capullo's awesome art.
    There are many things worth complaining about, but it's mostly just repetitive and boring and the same as last issue.

  10. #730
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    There are many things worth complaining about, but it's mostly just repetitive and boring and the same as last issue.
    Exactly. The people who've been complaining about Snyder's pothead 13 year old with ADHD writing style have already done so, repeatedly, and there's really not much to add anymore that hasn't been said over and over again. At this point, you're either enjoying it or you're not. And since the plot has largely been spoiled by Snyder's inability to not spill the beans, there isn't much to talk about.

    For myself, I'm enjoying the art and the sheer volume of awesome/stupid ideas that Snyder throws out, but I can't say I'm a particular fan of Death Metal. As with most big crossover events, I'm largely ambivalent about the whole thing, even if I think they've finally arrived at a decent approach towards continuity...although it's one that Morrison already had decades ago. But, again, trying and failing to be Morrison seems to be a big part of Snyder's shtick.

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    Basically the difference is that Marvel is a universe shared by many superheroes, DC is a Batman universe.
    DC has BECOME a Batman universe. I blame 'Batgod' Morrison, myself.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrswing View Post
    DC has BECOME a Batman universe. I blame 'Batgod' Morrison, myself.
    Very succinct and true answer.

    I would like to point out though, that Morrison wrote Final Crisis.
    Although it did have Batman able to defeat an actual god (Darkseid), it still had Superman be the center of the DC Universe (relies on Superman inherent goodness winning out against evil).

    So you can still have Batgod without making it all about Batman, like Snyder is doing.

  13. #733
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Can I just say that this image from issue #5 is really cool, I like most of the people in this and Capullo can draw some cool group shots.

    Dark-Nights-Death-Metal-5-spoilers-13.jpg
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  14. #734
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Capullo’s art has been amazing, don’t think anyone would say otherwise.

  15. #735
    Incredible Member SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Can I just say that this image from issue #5 is really cool, I like most of the people in this and Capullo can draw some cool group shots.

    Dark-Nights-Death-Metal-5-spoilers-13.jpg


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