Dark Nights: Death Metal - Sequel to Metal is Announced

[Robanker]

The creation of Superman spawned the DC universe that idea is of course ignorant of the characters before him
That idea is in its own way a put down on every hero after him and continues to dump refuse on every new character that sees the light of day today. "Oh thank Superman without him we wouldn't get a great character like sideways" nonsense



Batman may get a few events centered around him like Metal and this(even though its clearly a WW story) but the DC universe is still getting rebooted and retooled behind the broken franchise that is Superman. "Oh we need to fix the marriage, Oh we need to change his costume, Oh we need to get rid of his kid!!!!!!".


Every time there's a reboot its because of his influence and to that point its not earned because a good franchise wouldn't need to constantly be rebooted every decade. That by itself is honestly the gripe many should have over other characters not having enough respect to stand on their own but have to be slaves to the Superman line

There's never been a line wide relaunch in the DCU because of some mess that happened in the Batman title and that will always make what DC is doing with Bats more palatable

DC doesn't even respect its other characters enough to have them ignore the toxicity of Superman. We are finally in a good place though and it seems like all the pedestal crafting for Superman is behind us.

Honestly Batman has nothing to do with Superman he was inspired by the pulp heroes like the shadow and zoro who debuted several years before Superman. Its just funny how so many heroes who owe nothing to Superman have to bare that moniker "since he was the first"


He is definitely the first example of a char clone which spawns endless archetypes over the flying brick hero

Death Metal is definitely turning Batman into a char clone too but that's a gimmick and not played straight like with Superman

They asked Bob Kane to make a superhero like Superman because he was printing money. He asked "how much is that worth to you" and when they gave him a figure, he replied "you'll have a superhero by Monday."

He then made his infamous red Batman and then Bill Finger made the character we love today which Bob promptly stole credit for. He is 100% a response to Superman. At least learn your stuff before trying to downplay history to fit your narrative. You're making it very clear that you don't actually know what you're talking about. Yes, the inspiration for the assignment was more inspired by pulp heroes, but the visual was retooled to be entirely based on Superman (who himself is riffing on strongmen of the era), but the assignment itself is a response to Superman. You are categorically wrong. Without Superman to create the big bang, so to speak, Batman doesn't exist. It's simple cause and effect.

[blunt_eastwood]

If someone just said Superman has the potential to be the strongest hero on earth and left it at that I wouldn't have beef with stories like Doomsday Clock but writing an entire DCU post mortem about how the universe ran off the track because his character changed is dumb. It also disrespects the characters who have attained greater prominence in this period like they aren't actually good just opportunists taking advantage of Superman's fall.

When did this happen in DDC? From what I remember, Dr. Manhattan moved Alan Scott's lantern and that caused a ripple effect that then impacted Superman.

[Mr.B]

Death Metal is BatMan/DC event with Wonder Woman as the main character.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

The creation of Superman spawned the DC universe that idea is of course ignorant of the characters before him
That idea is in its own way a put down on every hero after him and continues to dump refuse on every new character that sees the light of day today. "Oh thank Superman without him we wouldn't get a great character like sideways" nonsense



Batman may get a few events centered around him like Metal and this(even though its clearly a WW story) but the DC universe is still getting rebooted and retooled behind the broken franchise that is Superman. "Oh we need to fix the marriage, Oh we need to change his costume, Oh we need to get rid of his kid!!!!!!".


Every time there's a reboot its because of his influence and to that point its not earned because a good franchise wouldn't need to constantly be rebooted every decade. That by itself is honestly the gripe many should have over other characters not having enough respect to stand on their own but have to be slaves to the Superman line

There's never been a line wide relaunch in the DCU because of some mess that happened in the Batman title and that will always make what DC is doing with Bats more palatable

DC doesn't even respect its other characters enough to have them ignore the toxicity of Superman. We are finally in a good place though and it seems like all the pedestal crafting for Superman is behind us.

Honestly Batman has nothing to do with Superman he was inspired by the pulp heroes like the shadow and zoro who debuted several years before Superman. Its just funny how so many heroes who owe nothing to Superman have to bare that moniker "since he was the first"


He is definitely the first example of a char clone which spawns endless archetypes over the flying brick hero

Death Metal is definitely turning Batman into a char clone too but that's a gimmick and not played straight like with Superman

^as a mega fan of both Batman and Superman......yeah I largely agree with the general gist of this.
Honestly I’ve come to find “Superman is the center of everything!” Wanking considerably more annoying and forced than batgod.

[Robotman]

spoilers:

"Alfred said Bats are the only mammal that flies, Batman is about teaching people to aspire past what seems possible"

end of spoilers
Jesus that's almost as bad as "Save Martha".
Does beg the question if there's an earth without bats the does he choose the name "flying squirrel man"?
I suppose you can't do associate cool metaphors with dolphin man or whale man.

That line was pretty ridiculous. Basically attributing to Batman what Superman embodies. Bruce using the bat as his mantle has never been about that.

[manwhohaseverything]

^as a mega fan of both Batman and Superman......yeah I largely agree with the general gist of this.
Honestly I’ve come to find “Superman is the center of everything!” Wanking considerably more annoying and forced than batgod.

That might be what you got from doomsday clock (which was superman book. More like an essay on the importance of superman ) . But, i didn't see anything to suggest that. The original superman story is made the lynch pin of multiverse. Why? Because that story is the first superhero story at dc. That story is made the root which branched off via multiverse. What should they do? Make a zorro story or phantom story or dr. Occult story the base story with which superhero stuff dc spawned off(that would be hilarious. I would very much appreciate it) ?It's not even using the postcrisis superman story everyone is familiar with. You can be annoyed by that. But, it wouldn't be dishonest.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

That might be what you got from doomsday clock (which was superman book. More like an essay on the importance of superman ) . But, i didn't see anything to suggest that. The original superman story is made the lynch pin of multiverse. Why? Because that story is the first superhero story at dc. That story is made the root which branched off via multiverse. What should they do? Make a zorro story or phantom story or dr. Occult story the base story with which superhero stuff dc spawned off(that would be hilarious. I would very much appreciate it) ?It's not even using the postcrisis superman story everyone is familiar with. You can be annoyed by that. But, it wouldn't be dishonest.

I know what Johns is going for, but it’s just too much for me.

[Sacred Knight]

That line was pretty ridiculous. Basically attributing to Batman what Superman embodies. Bruce using the bat as his mantle has never been about that.

Bad enough he actually wrote that drivel, he had to have Wonder Woman be the mouthpiece for it. This guy's getting worse than Timm. There's plenty of DC characters whose calling card is in part inspiration. Batman isn't one of them. That's not supposed to necessarily be a bad thing, he's just a different mold of character. His calling card is vengeance. But of course these days he has to be anything and everything packaged all into one ultimate savior.

[manwhohaseverything]

I know what Johns is going for, but it’s just too much for me. I like Doomsday Clock, Infinite Crisis too, but when I get to those parts, my eyeballs go straight to the ceiling.

I can behind the sentiments. I would rather the man of action have good stories and runs as well. These kinda fake importance being thrusted on the character rarely helps. Look at the s symbol on his chest being 1 to 1 equated as symbol of hope in krypton. S being just an S and then beginning to be seen as something to look up in the sky with hope for, is much more pleasing.

[Flash Gordon]

Batman does inspire people though, he's a man who has pushed himself beyond the limits of what a "man" can be. The Bat is an inspirational symbol of heroism.

That bit works for me.

[blunt_eastwood]

Batman does inspire people though, he's a man who has pushed himself beyond the limits of what a "man" can be. The Bat is an inspirational symbol of heroism.

That bit works for me.

The acutual bat symbol is incidental to him being an inspiration though. He inspires by having gone past him limits, not specifically by bearing the symbol of a bat.

[Nite-Wing]

They asked Bob Kane to make a superhero like Superman because he was printing money. He asked "how much is that worth to you" and when they gave him a figure, he replied "you'll have a superhero by Monday."

He then made his infamous red Batman and then Bill Finger made the character we love today which Bob promptly stole credit for. He is 100% a response to Superman. At least learn your stuff before trying to downplay history to fit your narrative. You're making it very clear that you don't actually know what you're talking about. Yes, the inspiration for the assignment was more inspired by pulp heroes, but the visual was retooled to be entirely based on Superman (who himself is riffing on strongmen of the era), but the assignment itself is a response to Superman. You are categorically wrong. Without Superman to create the big bang, so to speak, Batman doesn't exist. It's simple cause and effect.

You are talking about design and impetus
For example I can say Superman owes his entire design to the strong man imagery but the actual story behind the character is original.
I'm talking about character, Batman has no superpowers and his narrative is night and day compared to Superman. He owes none of his inspiration to Superman and so do so many other characters who have come since. Saying he popularized the genre for 50 years and then lost his title but continues to get kudos and props for nothing is a disservice imo. Hell in 10 years Supergirl could become infinitely more popular than Clark should we still feel the need to remember that there wouldn't be any Supergirl without Superman? No that's regressive thinking and ironically against all the ideals that Superman is supposed to be about. Superman doesn't want the story to be about himself he wants to see humanity grow but the continued zeal with which people latch onto propping him up is something that is fading and should fade

You can discount Zoro and the Shadow all you want at the end of the day anyone who is reading Batman will see where the inspiration is drawn from. Batman owes more to them than Superman

[Robanker]

You are talking about design and impetus
For example I can say Superman owes his entire design to the strong man imagery but the actual story behind the character is original.
I'm talking about character, Batman has no superpowers and his narrative is night and day compared to Superman. He owes none of his inspiration to Superman and so do so many other characters who have come since. Saying he popularized the genre for 50 years and then lost his title but continues to get kudos and props for nothing is a disservice imo. Hell in 10 years Supergirl could become infinitely more popular than Clark should we still feel the need to remember that there wouldn't be any Supergirl without Superman? No that's regressive thinking and ironically against all the ideals that Superman is supposed to be about. Superman doesn't want the story to be about himself he wants to see humanity grow but the continued zeal with which people latch onto propping him up is something that is fading and should fade

You can discount Zoro and the Shadow all you want at the end of the day anyone who is reading Batman will see where the inspiration is drawn from. Batman owes more to them than Superman

Alright, man. Agree to disagree. You clearly see nothing special about being the progenitor, revolutionizing a medium and being the spark from which both the Marvel and DC universes ultimately sprang from. And Clark's story isn't very original in the golden age. He's strongman Moses, just with space instead of a river.

Furthermore, I never discounted Zoro or the Shadow who are clearly big influences on Finger's inspiration for the character. But the entire medium was built on the back of Superman hence the respect most people have for the character 82 years later. You don't and that's fine.

And yeah, I think we should remember that Supergirl came from Superman. History is important. If tomorrow Nightwing eclipsed Batman in popularity and did so for the next 40 years, we should remember Batman too. It's not regressive to respect where you and your history come from. In fact, it's outright disrespectful to the medium and every creator involved to do so.

But we've digressed far enough from the OP, so to rerail the discussion, I will add that it's strange how little Diana seemed to think about Superman with her big plan at all and that it's basically a Diana, Bruce and Wally plan. While I do enjoy that Wally is getting prominence, it almost seems guaranteed he's destined to lose to prop up TBWL so Diana and Bruce can defeat him. Still, weird that never once did she address they need to find/save one of their closest friends and colleagues who does have a history of coming through in crisis events.

[manwhohaseverything]

Batman does inspire people though, he's a man who has pushed himself beyond the limits of what a "man" can be. The Bat is an inspirational symbol of heroism.

That bit works for me.

He does it to further his own personal petty vengeance and impact of his ptsd of his parents on the world. Not because he wants to push past his own boundaries. That just became one of the means. There is nothing inspirational about that. He isn't rock lee or heck! Even goku who are actively trying to break their own limits to get better. It's not a means to the end for these guys. It's a way of life. It's abit obsessive but you can't fault a guy to try to be the best he can be. I wouldn't call bruce wayne inspirational at all.

If he really wants to break his own limits as human. He wouldn't be look for "cheats" to betray his own companions . He would be searching for means to improve himself. I had called superman's muscles built on hot air. Bruce's strength is laughable at best.His strength is poor spirited.

[Morgoth]

Solitications for October issues is out. There are some spoilers.
DARK NIGHTS: DEATH METAL #4

Written by SCOTT SNYDER

Art and card stock foil cover by GREG CAPULLO and JONATHAN GLAPION

Darkseid card stock ariant cover by DAVID FINCH

Superboy-Prime card stock variant cover by ALEX GARNER

Green Lantern John Stewart card stock variant cover by STANLEY "ARTGERM" LAU

Card stock variant cover by DOUG MAHNKE

1:100 black-and-white card stock variant cover by GREG CAPULLO and JONATHAN GLAPION

Wonder Woman, Batman, and Superman are trapped in nightmare worlds within the Dark Multiverse! They'll need to face down their fiercest foes once again if they hope to accomplish their mission and bring back a power capable of stopping the Darkest Knight. But what horrors has he unleased on Earth while they've been locked away?!

32 pages, $4.99, in stores on Oct. 13.


DARK NIGHTS: DEATH METAL RISE OF THE NEW GOD #1

Written by JAMES TYNION IV and BRYAN HILL

Art by JESUS MERINO and NIK VIRELLA

Cover by IAN BERTRAM (shown here)

Card stock variant cover by BOSSLOGIC

Batman. Always. Wins. This irrevocable truth resonates to the very heart of Perpetua's battle with the Batman Who Laughs...and when her ally reveals his absolute nature, she will upend this mantra and destroy the last planet. His planet. But that's not enough...and the mother of all creation must wonder, if power lies in destruction, why would she ever stop? But that's the thing about truth...when it turns to fact, there's no disputing its godlike reverence...and so enters the Darkest Knight. Featuring a backup story that spins out of the cliffhanger from Dark Nights: Death Metal Multiverse's End #1.

48 pages, $5.99, in stores on Oct. 27.

DARK KNIGHTS: DEATH METAL ROBIN KING #1

Written by PETER J. TOMASI and TONY PATRICK

Art by RILEY ROSSMO backup story

Back-up Art by DANIEL SAMPERE

Cover by RILEY ROSSMO

Card stock ariant cover by JEREMY ROBERTS

With a utility belt filled to the brim with weapons designed to kill every hero in the DCU, Robin King is the most sadistic soldier in the Darkest Knight evil army! Can anyone stop him from laying waste to Earth's last line of defense? And how did he become one of the Batman Who Laugh's groblins in the first place? And in the backup story, can the Robins liberate Gotham City from the Darkest Knight's control?

48 pages, $5.99.