Dark Nights: Death Metal - Sequel to Metal is Announced

[Dred]

Morrison never pitted Batman against other heroes or used Batman's villains to embarrass other heroes. Morrison made every one into modern day mythological figures.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Morrison never pitted Batman against other heroes or used Batman's villains to embarrass other heroes. Morrison made every one into modern day mythological figures.

Yeah, when Morrison did Batgod, it somehow worked. Other creators? Not so much.

[Robanker]

Or, maybe, Batman writers will stop using that tired old story trope and get back to telling smaller, more interesting Batman stories wherein he's not simply doing damage control to more apocalyptic events being inflicted upon Gotham City.

It's what I want too, but don't hold your breath.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's what I want too, but don't hold your breath.

Yeah, as Snyder's career has proven, empty bombast and spectacle is far easier to write than carefully constructed mystery and crime capers with larger than life villains.

[Frontier]

So, only Batman could stop these villains who have, once again, taken over Gotham City to take revenge upon him...except for Superman, the Justice League, and countless others that Batman refuses to let help him for reasons that have never made any sense.

I will give Snyder credit for identifying just how damaging making Batman the lynchpin of the DCU has been and trying to craft a story about that, even if I think the results have been hilariously dumb.

Hopefully, the new Multiversal approach towards continuity will help fix this, allowing Gotham City to have their regularly occurring meltdown in which tens of thousands are murdered, tortured, and killed by villains trying to prove something to Batman in their own little pocket universe.

Or, maybe, Batman writers will stop using that tired old story trope and get back to telling smaller, more interesting Batman stories wherein he's not simply doing damage control to more apocalyptic events being inflicted upon Gotham City.

I mean, it's usually a given in the medium that major storylines going on in a characters' neck of the woods involving city-wide destruction end up only involving characters relevant to that city instead of calling in the full contingent of the Justice League or any available heroes because, ultimately, fans want to see the characters they're reading about solve the problems and not a bunch of guest heroes.

Flash isn't going to call in the Justice League to topple The Rogues taking over Central City, and Superman would probably find a way to stop Brainaic or Luthor on his own.

Yeah, as Snyder's career has proven, empty bombast and spectacle is far easier to write than carefully constructed mystery and crime capers with larger than life villains.

Huh. I actually think that describes Snyder's original Batman run well enough (well, one can argue the mysteries may not have been as well-constructed, but still).

[Vordan]

Which started with Morrison yet again.

I suppose there's no use complaining about it. I'd rather the DCU have the great stories Moore, Miller, & Morrison contributed, even if it means that lesser writers will inevitably churn out dozens of crappy stories trying to repeat what they accomplished.

Nah that started with Miller. Once you have Batman kicking Superman’s ass while monologuing about how great he is and how much Superman sucks, it’s not that far a stretch to end up with Tower of Babel. I wonder how Waid feels about that story given how it’s been used to dump on his fav lol?

[Frontier]

Nah that started with Miller. Once you have Batman kicking Superman’s ass while monologuing about how great he is and how much Superman sucks, it’s not that far a stretch to end up with Tower of Babel. I wonder how Waid feels about that story given how it’s been used to dump on his fav lol?

Did he ever see Justice League: Doom?

[Robanker]

Yeah, as Snyder's career has proven, empty bombast and spectacle is far easier to write than carefully constructed mystery and crime capers with larger than life villains.

Black Mirror into Court of Owls had so much promise and it's been diminishing returns each time. I only got his Justice League because of the artists he was bringing onboard. Snyder seems like a great guy but his work has just not impressed me for years and convinces me that the general audience mostly just want a book of empty spectacle and nothing else. I'm somewhat convinced if they just let their top artists do a pinup book where they can just draw whatever they want, they'd probably sell just fine. Like Solo but why even bother with a story.

[Vordan]

Did he ever see Justice League: Doom?

As someone who enjoyed Tower of Babel, I’d be fascinated to know if he did see that film as well, because that film more than anything what helped teach casuals that Batman can just do whatever he wants with zero repercussions. Instead of the League kicking Bruce out, the movie changes it to Bruce giving them all the middle finger and going “you can’t fire me because I quit”. Personally I thought that change sucked but casuals loved it obviously. Waid would probably hate it given he specifically included Bruce being kicked off as a punishment for how he acted.

[Robanker]

As someone who enjoyed Tower of Babel, I’d be fascinated to know if he did see that film as well, because that film more than anything what helped teach casuals that Batman can just do whatever he wants with zero repercussions. Instead of the League kicking Bruce out, the movie changes it to Bruce giving them all the middle finger and going “you can’t fire me because I quit”. Personally I thought that change sucked but casuals loved it obviously. Waid would probably hate it given he specifically included Bruce being kicked off as a punishment for how he acted.

I mean it's even worse because it ends with Superman walking out and giving him the ring as if to say "yeah bud, you are right to stick it to us" with Batman nodding and riding off into the metaphorical sunset, the moral victor. Give me a goddamn break. Take the cowl off and Bruce's actions wouldn't just be a firing offense, that's a full-tilt slide into betrayal and villainy. Justice would have been the portal closing and Bruce being stuck on the dead Earth with Owlman.

And I actually like Batman, but holy shit that story has done so much damage to him.

[Gaius]

Morrison pretty much writes every major hero on god mode from what I've read of his for the most part, so it comes off less "my favorite action figure can beat up your favorite action figure" in comparison to stuff like the Dark Multiverse, Justice League: Doom, Injustice, etc.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I mean, it's usually a given in the medium that major storylines going on in a characters' neck of the woods involving city-wide destruction end up only involving characters relevant to that city instead of calling in the full contingent of the Justice League or any available heroes because, ultimately, fans want to see the characters they're reading about solve the problems and not a bunch of guest heroes.

Flash isn't going to call in the Justice League to topple The Rogues taking over Central City, and Superman would probably find a way to stop Brainaic or Luthor on his own.

Flash's problems in Central City don't tend to rack up the body counts that Batman's merry-go-round of Gotham City massacres tend to. And Superman is regularly calling in help whenever a situation gets larger than he can handle. The recent Leviathan/Legion of Doom storyarc being a good example. Meanwhile, we have story after story in which Gotham City is regularly the scene of catastrophic events and no one outside the Bat-family is anywhere to be seen.

Again, this could be solved by making the Batman books more self-contained in their own little pocket universe where Gotham City is the literal pit of hell, forever being taken over by criminals, destroyed by earthquakes and catastrophes, and regularly terrorized by mass murderers and sociopathic street gangs like its Dark Knight Returns in perpetuity. If that's all the Batman creators are capable of giving us, just lean into it, but the current status quo makes both Batman and the rest of the DCU look terrible.

Again, it's one of the things about Death Metal that I think works the best. The idea that the juvenile nihilistic ethos of the modern Batman comics have completely taken over and left the DCU in ruins is a pretty apt commentary.

Huh. I actually think that describes Snyder's original Batman run well enough (well, one can argue the mysteries may not have been as well-constructed, but still).

Exactly. The moment Snyder decided to try to be Morrison, his Batman stuff stopped working for me. Granted, the sales of his Batman stuff clearly show I was in the minority there. Same deal with the Batman Who Laughs. As much as you and I (and plenty of others) may find the character tiresome and one-note, the character is obviously popular based upon how much merch he sells.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Nah that started with Miller. Once you have Batman kicking Superman’s ass while monologuing about how great he is and how much Superman sucks, it’s not that far a stretch to end up with Tower of Babel. I wonder how Waid feels about that story given how it’s been used to dump on his fav lol?

That's true. Morrison's Batman in JLA was extrapolating upon the Miller-influenced Batman that the Batbooks had already been driving into the ground for years.

Man, I've been dumping on Batman recently. For the record, I think Batman is awesome. I just find the default version of him DC has unfortunately decided upon is terrible and was so thoroughly eviscerated by LEGO Batman that it's kind of shocking that only Bendis has made any attempt to course correct the character.

To be fair, I also think most of what DC has done with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, & Green Lantern has been lacking as well

[Robanker]

That's true. Morrison's Batman in JLA was extrapolating upon the Miller-influenced Batman that the Batbooks had already been driving into the ground for years.

Man, I've been dumping on Batman recently. For the record, I think Batman is awesome. I just find the default version of him DC has unfortunately decided upon is terrible and was so thoroughly eviscerated by LEGO Batman that it's kind of shocking that only Bendis has made any attempt to course correct the character.

To be fair, I also think most of what DC has done with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, & Green Lantern has been lacking as well

With you 100%. Batman Universe was a breath of fresh air, and while some modern writers still make him work for me, I'm afraid the Batman I enjoyed most is a thing of the past. Bronze Age Bruce Wayne? Rad. Even some of the 80s/90s stuff was pretty good Batman. After JLA, though, it just started a downward tailspin he's yet to pull out of.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Morrison pretty much writes every major hero on god mode from what I've read of his for the most part, so it comes off less "my favorite action figure can beat up your favorite action figure" in comparison to stuff like the Dark Multiverse, Justice League: Doom, Injustice, etc.

Very much so. We're seeing that in full display in The Green Lantern, in which Hal Jordan has never been cooler, more capable, or more compelling.

There's few other creators who've managed to pull off what Morrison has with so many different characters. It's still disappointing that he largely whiffed it with Wonder Woman, who is easily one of the more challenging superheroes to write correctly, but I figured Morrison might actually be able to crack the code there.