Best hand-to-hand combatants in Marvel?

[Phoenixx9]

Domino

Moon Knight

Shroud

[LifeIsILL]

1. Shang-Chi
2. Iron Fist
3. Mr.X
4. Wolverine
5. Taskmaster

[Kuwagaton]

I'll always peg Danny Rand as #1. I think the comics flesh out his abilities best.

Maybe Wolverine at #2. Although he's one of my favorite characters, I wish it wasn't so because he already has so many other abilities.

T'Challa is maybe equal with Steve and Bucky.... can't say I've read much Shang Chi or cosmic stuff

[XPac]

Honestly...while Wolverine is trained and experienced...if it wasn't for his healing factor how many times would he be dead? Let's face it...Shingen nearly cut him in half with a sword.

That's just a part of his fighting style. He'll take a hit to give one, since a LOT of the time his claws means he'll come out ahead in the exchange.

His style suits his abilities. If he had a different powerset his style would likely be different.

[mugiwara]

1) Gamora
2) Temugin
3) Mandarin
4) Shang Chi
5) Iron Fist
6) Mantis

[JudicatorPrime]

Honestly...while Wolverine is trained and experienced...if it wasn't for his healing factor how many times would he be dead? Let's face it...Shingen nearly cut him in half with a sword.

I see your point. This is why we have to fill out these lists with an asterisk for the individuals with powers. Without his mutant healing factor, Wolverine likely doesn't get an adamantium skeleton -- or at least we're told the bonding process would have definitely killed him without his fast healing ability. Wolverine's fighting knowledge is often seen as the third most important thing about him. Take away the mutant ability and he's just a 5' 3" runt of a man with hypertrichosis. While he might epitomize the old saying "it's the size of the fight in the dog" and ended up in the superhero biz as Marvel's version of Golden Age Atom, more than likely James never leaves the farm. In fact, without his healing factor, there's no longevity. He would have died in the last century, probably in one of the various epidemics of the early 20th century.

[Tien Long]

My personal belief on that (and I know some will disagree) is that the people that are basically great at EVERYTHING like Batman and Black Panther shouldn't be THE BEST at any one thing. So while I think guys like Batman and Black Panther should be in the top 10 list of fighters, they shouldn't be at the very top of it.

A Batman or a T'Challa have to divide their time between training in martial arts and a million other skills... engineering, computers, etc. But a Shang Chi or a Richard Dragon can basically spend all their time training to perfect their one specific trade. If a Batman or a Black Panther focued PURELY on fighting they could be the best at that one aspect... but because they have to master so many other disciplines it drops them down a notch or two from where they theoretically COULD be otherwise.

But like I said, I'm sure Batman and Black Panther fans would disagree with me on that.

I'll agree but to a point. I'd definitely say that Shang or Richard Dragon are better fighters than Batman or Black Panther, but the gap in skill is relatively small. As you've mentioned, T'Challa and Bruce have had to devote themselves to numerous other endeavors, like being experts in science, technology, strategy, statescraft, corporate business, engineering, etc. Those other pursuits take away time and in hand to hand fights, where just a fraction of an inch or a split second means the difference between victory or defeat, I side on the one who devoted themselves more to the skill.

Again, this doesn't take away anything from Bats or Black Panther. They're well-rounded individuals whose combination of skills compensate for any gaps. Let's be honest, with their ordinary tech and strategies, Black Panther could easily beat Shang or Batman could easily beat Richard. Hand to hand, no enhancements, equipment, or tech, it's a different matter.

No mention of Gorgon/Toni Shishido yet? IIRC he’s bested Shang-Chi, Wolverine and Elektra.

Yep, that's true. But the guy has gone against gods? Superhuman strength and speed? It's understandable why he'd do so well.

[Sutekh]

In theory, Wolverine might even be a better fighter without the adamantium and stuff, since he'd be lighter and faster, and less likely to stand there and take it, trusting to his regeneration to let him keep functioning. His metal bones slow him down, and limit his ability to jump or swim or whatever, and while he's clearly compensated over the years, he's not superhumanly strong, and would likely be faster and more agile sans all that metal.

I don't think it's necessarily that he doesn't *have* the skill of someone like Iron Fist or Shang-Chi, so much as he can't access all of it, and, frankly, doesn't *need* it, with his current abilities / enhancements. If they were stripped away, I suspect his fighting style would be very different, with much stronger defensive martial arts techniques (which he doesn't really seem to use, or need, at present), and yet also better offensive abilities (since he'd have to actually incapacitate foes with pressure points or knock-out blows or weapon damage, lacking knives-for-hands).

[JudicatorPrime]

In theory, Wolverine might even be a better fighter without the adamantium and stuff, since he'd be lighter and faster, and less likely to stand there and take it, trusting to his regeneration to let him keep functioning. His metal bones slow him down, and limit his ability to jump or swim or whatever, and while he's clearly compensated over the years, he's not superhumanly strong, and would likely be faster and more agile sans all that metal.

I don't think it's necessarily that he doesn't *have* the skill of someone like Iron Fist or Shang-Chi, so much as he can't access all of it, and, frankly, doesn't *need* it, with his current abilities / enhancements. If they were stripped away, I suspect his fighting style would be very different, with much stronger defensive martial arts techniques (which he doesn't really seem to use, or need, at present), and yet also better offensive abilities (since he'd have to actually incapacitate foes with pressure points or knock-out blows or weapon damage, lacking knives-for-hands).

All good points and quite possible. But I see Wolverine without powers as more of a boxer/brawler type for some reason. More in Daredevil's mold than in Shang Chi's. But I suppose it's possible that Logan's travels would have taken him to various places and exposed him to different types of fighting other than just the Eastern variety, like capoeira.

[Vishop]

All good points and quite possible. But I see Wolverine without powers as more of a boxer/brawler type for some reason. More in Daredevil's mold than in Shang Chi's. But I suppose it's possible that Logan's travels would have taken him to various places and exposed him to different types of fighting other than just the Eastern variety, like capoeira.

Wolverine has been learning several techniques of martial arts, sword fighting or military under the radar of Shingen, Ogun, Nick Fury, Elektra, Stick, Master Po since the beginning. There was always a certain transition of his increasing prowess over the course of time.

Certain writers want him to write his prowess and strength and some of them want to expose him to his healing factor and savageness. Both are part of his character. This is a certain divisiveness that is been happening for the last couple of decades.

Right now for the most occasions, his savagery can be regarded as lazy or inconsistent writing because he is oversaturated and it also contradicts the exposure towards fighting culture.

[Phoenixx9]

Hercules

Thor

Thundra

Valkyrie

[Shinglepants]

Yep, that's true. But the guy has gone against gods? Superhuman strength and speed? It's understandable why he'd do so well.

He has some decent feats for sure. Perhaps we’ll see him add another scalp whilst serving as Xaviers bodyguard.

[Vishop]

He has some decent feats for sure. Perhaps we’ll see him add another scalp whilst serving as Xaviers bodyguard.

I have seen you on and off in this forum but do you mind telling your favourite X characters?

[XPac]

I'll agree but to a point. I'd definitely say that Shang or Richard Dragon are better fighters than Batman or Black Panther, but the gap in skill is relatively small. As you've mentioned, T'Challa and Bruce have had to devote themselves to numerous other endeavors, like being experts in science, technology, strategy, statescraft, corporate business, engineering, etc. Those other pursuits take away time and in hand to hand fights, where just a fraction of an inch or a split second means the difference between victory or defeat, I side on the one who devoted themselves more to the skill.

Again, this doesn't take away anything from Bats or Black Panther. They're well-rounded individuals whose combination of skills compensate for any gaps. Let's be honest, with their ordinary tech and strategies, Black Panther could easily beat Shang or Batman could easily beat Richard. Hand to hand, no enhancements, equipment, or tech, it's a different matter.



Yep, that's true. But the guy has gone against gods? Superhuman strength and speed? It's understandable why he'd do so well.

If you're in the top 10 list, I don't think it's unfair to assume the gap between any and all these guys is proporionately speaking very small. It's entirely believable that the person ranked 8th can equal or beat the person ranked 2nd any day of the week. And I'm sure that's why many of these days have had strong showings against each other, to the point where the notion of a ranking is almost moot. It's a fun discussion exercise more than anything else. Daredevil fan X will argue he may have dominated Captain America in this issue, while Captain America fan Y will counter by saying he dominated DD in this one. A lot of these guys have all looked better against another person on the list at one time or another. That's why we can never get a definative answer.

[XPac]

All good points and quite possible. But I see Wolverine without powers as more of a boxer/brawler type for some reason. More in Daredevil's mold than in Shang Chi's. But I suppose it's possible that Logan's travels would have taken him to various places and exposed him to different types of fighting other than just the Eastern variety, like capoeira.

Again, his powerset greatly defines his fighing style. If you've got built in claws, you're more likely to train to fight with your hands than your feet. That said, he spent so much time learning so much of various combat style in Japan it's almost impossible for me not to assume he doesn't know how to throw a kick or two if the need called for it. With an unbreakable skeleton, healing factor, and adamantim claws which can almost cut through anything it's pretty to imagine in most hand to hand fights he wants to stay as close as possible and exchange blows, even if it means taking a hit to give one, as he will come out ahead in most exhcanges short of trading shots with the Hulk or the Juggernaut.